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Dr. Joel Rosen:
You’re joined by my next guest, Harris Khan. He is the co-founder of the DNA company. He holds a Bachelor of Science and honors biomedical science from the University of Waterloo.
After completing his undergraduate studies, he pursued his postgraduate studies in pharmaceutical research and development before gaining employment at Patek Canada’s largest General General, Generic Pharmaceutical company in the formulations development department. He also currently serves as the Director of Product Development, where he oversees the entire lifestyle lifecycle, sorry, of the DNA company’s suites of products and services. So Harris, thank you so much for being here today.
Harris Khan:
Thank you, Dr. Rosen. It’s a pleasure to be on here and to chat with you today.
Dr. Joel Rosen:
Yeah, listen, I want to kind of go into your background. So here you are going from one extreme to the next, in a sense, right, using the same information from one paradigm to the next meaning, pharmaceutical research.
And now you’ve pivoted to almost the antithesis of that, in terms of what can we do behaviorally and lifestyle-wise, along with understanding your genetics, maybe explain how they’re connected? Because a lot of people that would be listening to this would wouldn’t want to understand how there would be a connection. But absolutely, there is why don’t you explain your journey to the listeners? Yeah,
Harris Khan:
sure. So I mean, I started, you know, I was young, and so-called Naive when I, when I graduated, was a fresh graduate still wet behind the ears, so to speak. And I really wanted to make an impact in healthcare. Right. And so when you’re younger, you know, you look around the world, you see that the biggest movers and shakers in healthcare is Pharma. And so you think, well, if I get involved in pharmaceuticals, I’ll be involved in you know, building life-saving drugs.
And you know, for the time I was doing that I was working at Apple tax, we were building billion-dollar drugs, we were testing them. But I quickly realized that, you know, especially in the West, and especially, you know, in North America, the approach to health care, the standard approach to health care is more about sick care. Right. It’s more about management and sickness. So how do we manage the symptoms of sick people? Or how do we help sick people, I realized, you know, that for 1000s, and 1000s, of years, humankind has always had a preventative model.
So you have to work to stay healthy. And then obviously, all this modern technology, we sit on our asses for eight hours a day, we eat horribly, we have horrible environments, horrible lifestyles, we’re burned out. So we get sick very, very fast. And what I wanted to do is not really be involved in sick care, and helping people who are already sick, I wanted to go way back and help healthy people stay healthy. And so that kind of you know, I started looking around to see what was out there.
And I happened to meet Dr. Mensa who was the kind of creator of this fantastic test, this genetic test that we came across. We quickly learned that if we harness the power of our DNA, which is the most objectively unique and individualized thing about ourselves, we can better build a personalized approach to our health care, our health, and wellness. That’s not relying upon what I’m learning on Google looking at Instagram or listening to doctors on TV. It’s personalized and unique to me as an individual. So that to me really spoke volumes about you know how we can really truly help innovate healthcare by helping every individual take power, take back power of their own health and wellness, and build that personalized approach to optimal longevity and health and wellness. You Wow,
Dr. Joel Rosen:
that’s an interesting story. So there wasn’t really a pivotal time where you said, Hey, like, I’m not getting satisfaction out of this, or I don’t feel like I’m getting upstream enough, or I’m not actually addressing the root cause, like, Was there some kind of trigger for that? That transition?
Harris Khan:
Yeah, so just exactly to your point. So I had been working for a number of years, and I kept looking at, you know, and how, you know, these companies were making money, and a lot of it had to do with, you know, competing against patents for drugs and, and getting into legal issues. And, and, you know, these billion dollar drugs, stuff like Lipitor, and metformin, all these popular drugs, these are management drugs, and I said, Well, I don’t want to, I don’t want to give people things to manage their cholesterol, I want them to not have high cholesterol.
Same with diabetes, these are chronic diseases. If you approach them, right, a shouldn’t happen. But if they happen, you can reverse them, right? It’s not like you’re stuck with high cholesterol for the rest of your life. Now, it’ll take you some time, some commitment, some effort, but you can reverse things like diabetes, type two diabetes, you can reverse things like high cholesterol, you can reverse things like obesity, you just have to have that support and guidance. Right. So exactly to your point, I realized that we could use genetics to personalize that approach.
And then the B, which was the biggest thing is how do we build those behavioral change mechanisms to help people achieve a sense of, you know, changing their life, to support healthier outcomes, right, so not like temporary diets and temporary supplements, but rather, changing the pivoting their entire, it’s like a paradigm shift, go from, I’m a person who does dieting to I am a person that eats this way, and this is the way I eat. So there’s no temporary nature attached to it.
Dr. Joel Rosen:
Yeah, and I think the B part is really important a understand the lay of the land or the blueprint, but the B part is actually developing habits and behaviors that are easy to implement. And you’re not browbeat with the science, per se. And you actually have the effect, which is what’s so unique about the DNA company, which I think is great. But just rewinding a little bit further, I just read a post earlier today, actually, which says it’s a shame that our government and our FDA are more concerned about pleasing or helping and working along with the pharmaceutical industry than it is public health.
And I think it’s it’s gotten into that full swing of public health and prevention and understanding our lifestyle choices and everything that encompasses how it’s from the psychological to the physical to the emotional to the spiritual, is really lost with focusing on one drug, one cure type of outdated model of, of what we call like medicine 1.0, right, where 1.0 was the acute base, take this for that type of thing. But now we have just a conglomerate of stressors, whether it’s the news, or what’s going on in the world, EMFs, pollutants, pesticides, sprays or chemicals, or all of the above. It’s outdated.
So I guess the transition question is, what I think so amazing about genetics is that a lot of the pharmaceutical companies and the research that was done by that industry sort of paved the way for the neutral genomic component where the cofactors and things that are inhibited by certain things and how the drug mechanistically works, maybe speak a little bit of that in terms of how that information paved the way, but the emphasis is, is in terms of supporting versus blocking, right, because that’s typically what the medication does, how can I block this pathway versus the holistic approach of how can we support this pathway that does that make sense?
Harris Khan:
Yeah, and I think that that comes down to, you know, when people first start dabbling in genetic testing and getting involved in genes, they think that, oh, genes are these like, magical little things in my body that I have to either block and not make them work so I can protect myself. And the reality is, in some cases, yes. It’s important to block gene activity for whatever reason, there could be a mutation, there could be a specific cancer situation where you do you need to, you know, really block genetic activity. But I think when it comes to genetic support, the important thing to stress is, that it’s not about how I upregulated or downregulate a single gene, like how do I slow down or speed up one gene rather, what does this gene do in my body? That’s step one, like where is its function?
And once I understand the function, then I look at all the cursory outcomes related to that function, right I don’t want to slow Jean down thinking I’m solving one problem. But slowing down that gene causes three other problems, right? And that kind of siloed individual myopic approach is what a lot of these companies have started to promote, right?
So you’ll get a genetic report for most reports, and they’ll say, Oh, you’ve got this version of this gene, you should do this to slow it down so that you reduce your risk of this, but it’s like, but that’s not the purpose of that gene. Like there are many other things that gene does, you don’t want to just go around and play around with slowing down and speeding up genes or gene expression. So the most important thing is understanding the impact of that gene on the outcomes you’re trying to address. So a really good example that I know, I know, you’re an expert on this, you deal with so many people like this, you know, when we talk about burnout, there are many factors that influence burnout, right?
There are genes that play a very strong role in burnout. But slowing down or speeding up those jeans isn’t going just to solve the burnout problem, you’re not just going to wake up one day and be free of burnout. Rather, once you understand the impact of that gene, on burnout, like what is it contributing to, then you start to look at all the other things that you can do to support the function of that gene. Right. So really great example is there’s a gene in your body called ADRA Tubi agora Tubi, that manages noradrenaline function. Now, noradrenaline is your fight-or-flight neurotransmitter. Individuals who have a partial deletion in their attitude B gene, tend to tend to have a longer emotional experience. In other words, they have an emotional memory imprint, and their noradrenaline receptor stays on for a longer period of time. So they have hypersensitivity.
And over time, this continued presence of being in that hypersensitive mode can lead to burnout. Right? Now, if I try to go and play around with that gene, that’s not going to solve the burnout problem. Rather, once I know that I’m a person, that’s more likely to be hypersensitive, I have to look at my lifestyle first and figure out what’s going on in my lifestyle that’s driving me into hypersensitivity, like maybe it’s a toxic relationship, maybe it’s my addiction to video games, maybe it’s like, you know, my uncontrollable eating habits that’s sending me into hypersensitivity, it’s not necessarily about the gene, the gene is just laying down the predisposition, it’s kind of just identifying that this is who you are, the outcome and the solutions are as individual as you are, meaning it has to come down to you, we got to look at your whole life, and figure out the genes simply give us the guidance, right. Sometimes we will help you with the gene expression, but most of the time, it’s about knowing how the gene impacts your health and wellness and then figuring out what solutions are going to work for you. Yeah, I
Dr. Joel Rosen:
mean, that’s very, really eloquently stated, especially since I look at it as, like the pharmaceutical model. And there’s a time and a place for sure for it. But I think it is that the reductionistic approach impacts the gene and expects the result to ensue. And unfortunately, with the holistic functional world, you have the greenwashing of the same premise, right in terms of well, instead of giving you a pharmaceutical, I’ll do it in terms of a nutrient and expect the same reductionistic approach.
So I think that’s interesting to see the evolution of genomics to functional genomics to or genetics to functional genomics to actually lifestyle-based individualized care, which you just spoke of, in terms, okay, if we understand how that gene works, and what it does, and when it is either acting too quickly or too slowly, these tendencies will ensue and do and then that’s where the doctor part comes into, right? Because you want to ask the patient like, hey, does this land on you?
Are you the type of person who is hypersensitive? Do you have a tendency for anxiety? Or do you have a tendency to ruminate and not be able to turn things off and constantly think about things? So then once you do understand the gene, okay, well, this gene is probably irrelevant then. Right? And that’s where it gets really interesting too, because it’s not an isolation of a gene. It’s upstream genes that impact the nutrients that bring to that it’s like an assembly line, right? And one of the analogies I use Harris all the time for people is contingencies. I once had a client who was a pilot, and I was explaining the contingencies that this gene supports that gene. It helps make the cofactor so that that gene can work effectively. And even if there isn’t a mutation or slow-down process in the Jean that it goes to environmentally, it could be slowed as well. And then it starts to become like, oh my gosh, like, he says, it’s kind of like flying a plane, like, when this system fails, then this system kicks in.
And then if that system fails, this system kicks in. So you have all these contingencies. So maybe speak about that in terms of, you know, the one gene approach where someone looks at the Bracha gene, and they say, Oh, I have an increase. I have to, you know, be concerned about breast cancer because of that, or especially the APO gene, in terms of its correlative of having a higher incidence or chance of having Alzheimer’s, but it’s not causative.
And I guess I guess the question is, speak of the evolution that you’re seeing where now it goes from the greenwashing of not just giving you a pill for the ill, but giving you a supplement for the ill and not getting it to improve it to now understanding that it’s not one. I mean, he kind of talked about it earlier, but maybe emphasize it a little bit further in terms of how the DNA company organizes the different sections so that you have a workable sort of game card as you will, or report card or audit as you do? How is that evolved? And how have you guys organized that to deliver, I guess customized individualized recommendation
Dr. Joel Rosen:
Here because Steve Cohen has published his DNA way, book. And it really is a masterpiece in terms of explaining to you the different areas that the DNA company evaluates your genes from your mood and behavior, your diet and your nutrition, your sleep, your cardiovascular health, your fitness hormone, and body type health, how you detox your immune system inflammation and longevity. So if you are interested in getting your own genes evaluated, then just make sure you click on the link below or you scan your barcode to take you directly to the checkout site. And that way, you can start to empower yourself to get your health back. So let’s get back to the interview with Harris.
Harris Khan:
Right, right, right. Yeah. So you touched on a lot of important points there. So I’ll take some time to kind of explain that approach. So the first thing I always love is, you know, from time to time, I’ll meet someone who says, oh, you know, I’ve got the Bracha gene. So I’m in trouble. And I’ll start by saying, Yes, I have the bracha gene as well, we all do. In fact, if we didn’t have the bracha gene, we’d all be dead. The bracha gene produces the Brock enzyme that enzymes function in essential repair. Right.
So the best way to describe it in layman’s terms is that your blockage gene is like the fire truck. And the fire truck’s job is to put out fires that are happening in the body. But what people are saying when they say I have the Bracha gene is they have a mutation in the Abraca gene. And the mutation can be described as your fire truck doesn’t have wheels. So if your fire truck doesn’t have wheels, it can do its job of driving to the area of the fire and putting out the fires, right? But that begs the question, what started the fire?
And that’s what people don’t ask it’s your risk of breast cancer when you have a Brock mutation increases, because you can deal with the fires that are happening in your body. And that fire is described as inflammation. There’s some sort of chronic cellular inflammation or cellular replication that’s happening. Now. If we start to do a little bit more digging, we find out that in some cases, the fire is started by estrogen metabolites, right estrogen metabolites are produced when estrogen is broken down by the body.
There are two or three major metabolites, and estrogen is broken into two hydroxy, four hydroxy and 16, alpha hydroxy, estrogen, and the latter two, four hydroxy and 16. Alpha Hydroxy, are inflammatory toxins because when they break down, they create Quinones and free radicals. Both of these are inflammatory byproducts. And so are we then able to understand does a person have a higher propensity to produce a certain type of estrogen metabolite that could be inflammatory? Yes, but here’s the important thing. If I were to look at the gene that determines how much estrogen metabolite four hydroxy, estrogen you produce, just by itself, I saw that I was producing the fast version, meaning I was producing a lot of estrogen metabolites. I get worried because I’m only looking at one gene. But that’s not how the body works.
The body doesn’t work in one gene, action outcome, you know, approach. It’s very functional. Let’s look at what’s happening upstream. Well, in order to produce a lot of estrogen metabolites, you have to first be producing a lot of estrogen, because if you don’t have a lot of estrogen, even if you have a fast gene, you’re not producing as many extra metabolites. So that’s the let’s look up and we see Hold on, you’re actually pretty slow at producing estrogen. Okay, that’s the first safety thing.
But then in order to produce estrogen, you have to be producing testosterone because no estrogen molecule is made in your body without being made from testosterone. And we look further and we say hold on a second, you’re also not producing a lot of testosterone, because your conversion of progesterone, testosterone is slow. So all of a sudden, what initially would have been a scary thing, oh, it looks like I have a fast gene for estrogen metabolite production, which is dangerous to me. It’s all tempered. Because I’m not producing a lot of estrogens, and I’m not producing a lot of testosterone. So relatively, I’m actually producing low levels of estrogen metabolites.
And that the important thing is knowing what’s happening upstream, as you mentioned, now, the second thing is downstream, even if I’m producing a lot of estrogen metabolites, how’s my detox? Like? How are my protective processes like glutathione isolation, and antioxidation, if they’re, if they’re optimal, if they’re working at the speed they need to be, then my risk is reduced even further. So now you can see how I went from initially just looking at one gene and freaking out to then looking at the entire upstream and downstream processing, thinking, Oh, it’s just that one gene, that’s fast, but everything else is tempered. So I actually don’t have as big of a risk as I thought I did.
Right, then my approach to manage any existing metabolites is different. Maybe I don’t need to take a giant supplement of dim or some sort of estrogen molecule, I just need to eat more broccoli, and that’s easy. Like I’ll just warm up a bowl of broccoli every other day. And that’ll be magic, that’ll be enough for my body, right? So that’s the important thing is, once you know that entire process, you don’t have to feel like you have to take a supplement or a pill or something crazy, you can simply make simple tweaks to your lifestyle, and that’ll be enough protection for you.
Dr. Joel Rosen:
Yeah, no, awesome, awesome answer. And I remember in our first interview, we were talking about the analogy, and I love that analogy. And so some of the the other genomics that I’ve learned about too, are sort of like the fire department, signaling the fire truck to go to the scene.
And that also begs the question as well, like you you mentioned tempered, I think that’s a great word I have mentioned sort of similar in terms of contingencies or working along together, where let’s say, like that your nerf to and keep one are the fire department that senses the smoke gets the call signals the ambulance to go to the scene, but it doesn’t have tire so it can’t go there. Or it’s not able to turn on the fire hose. It’s kind of sitting there just not really releasing the hounds, if you will. And then so but to your point, it really matters as to okay, what’s the end result here? Is that estrogen for a wage pathway, indeed, upregulated? And are you having a lot of Quinones or DNA damage have to worry about in the first place or not? So I love that idea in terms of how you suggest like, okay, let’s, let’s hold our horses. Let’s understand, like, how it’s playing out.
And then ultimately, Mrs. Jones, what’s your biggest challenge? What are your main concerns? And then let’s see how this is involved in that. So that’s where you have not just hormone health and fitness, but you also have cardiovascular and mood behavior and immunity.
So how would that play? And let’s say, Okay, now just following this case, study, this person does have a quick conversion into a wage, but then they have these tempered things that impact how much is actually playing out? Let’s follow that through, okay, then they get this report card, how does it work with the DNA company? What are the other variables or sections that are looked at so that you finally say, Okay, I know this is confusing, and maybe the listeners that are listening to this are thinking, wow, this is over my head, or I don’t really understand.
We want you to understand that the DNA company and functional genomics and individualized medicine if you will, make it actionable for you to understand these tiny little habits and behaviors that you’re doing every day? are that are addressing this complicated information. But what are the other areas that you educate your people that get the testing in other areas?
Harris Khan:
Yeah, so that’s a great question. I know, you know, a lot of people, ‘re always a little bit anxious to get their DNA tested, they don’t know what they’re going to find out. So the first thing is we’re not a diagnostic test, right? So we’re not going to tell you you have cancer or you’re gonna die of a heart attack or anything like that. We’re not diagnostic in nature. What we are is we’re associated Association based.
And what that means is, what we’re looking at is what is the impact of these functional genes, these genes that have a role in your body, on your lifestyle, your diet, your nutrition, your you know important things like sleep and hormones, so that you have a better idea of the potential risks that could happen if you continue abusing your lifestyle or not living the way you are eating the way you’re supposed to. So we break them down into six systems, we believe that these six systems provide a 360-degree view of your health and wellness.
So we look at mood and behavior. So that’s understanding your response to pleasure, sadness, anxiety, depression, addiction, all of these things that are related to your mental health, and how genes influence those outcomes. We then look at your cardiovascular health. And when we say cardiovascular health, what we’re looking at is, what is your ability to manage inflammation at the cardiovascular level?
That’s the important thing like how do you deal with any inflammatory toxin, which could be smoke, cigarettes, smoke, pollution, mold, estrogen metabolites, internal, free radicals, any kind of toxin infections, viral infections, etc. So that’s cardiovascular, looking at how it impacts your cardiovascular profile. Thirdly, we look at immunity like your anti-inflammatory profile. That’s huge. We want to know that at the cellular level, how well do you resist and break down inflammation before can impact you? We look at fitness and hormones.
A lot of people asked me the same question. Ours, I want to put on more muscle, I want to lose weight, I want to like, Look Big hormones play an important role in that your relationship with testosterone. Estrogen plays a really big role in determining how quickly you can lose weight and put on muscle and people don’t realize that right? It’s not just about diet and fasting. It’s about knowing how your hormones work. We look at diet and nutrition. So what are the genes that determine how well you metabolize fats and carbs, you know, a very popular question we get is, what diet should I be on? Should I be on keto? Should I be on paleo?
Should I be plant-based, right? And the reality to that question is, everyone’s diet, if we approach it correctly, is going to be unique and individual to them. It’s not going to be I’m a Keto person, or I’m a paleo person. Rather, you may draw on keto techniques, you may use paleo techniques, and you may eat paleo meals once in a while. What we’re trying to figure out is how you eat according to your genes.
This means how do you keep eating according to the variations you have, for example, if you are a person that metabolizes fats really well, but you have a poor insulin response. In other words, you don’t know what to do with the sugars that are turned, you know, your fats turn into sugars, then you don’t want to consider ketogenic ketogenic diet, because you could potentially have elevated blood sugars and cause diabetes on a ketogenic diet, right. So that kind of intelligent approach helps people say hold on a second, I’m not just going to jump on Google and watch a video on the ketogenic diet, and then start following it. I’m going to look at my genes and pick the diet that works for me.
And then the final system will look at sleep. And that’s a huge thing I would say that the most popular question we get is, How do I get better sleep? How do I have more energy when I’m awake? And what diet or fitness thing should I follow? Those are the top three questions, right? So we provide that information in an easy-to-understand way.
So we don’t overwhelm people with the data. And then the key thing is, okay, now that you’ve learned about your genes, right, so if these people were to go there, you know, their family doctor or to look online, you know, and they were to type in their health concern, the four big recommendations are what, you need to eat better, you need to work out, you need to sleep better, and you need to stress less. But yeah, like, I can go to Google, you know, I don’t need to go anywhere or pay at any doctor, for you to tell me that I could have done that.
But how do I do that? Like, how do I physically actually start implementing that in my life? And so, you know, when you want to lose weight, and someone tells you well, you need to change your diet and start working out more. That’s level 10. Changing your diet and working out more for someone who hasn’t done it in 40 years, is not going to happen overnight.
And we recognize that. So for example, if we want to change our diet, the first step we take is, you know, Horace, I want you to write every single thing you eat in a day. Like just That’s all I want you to do for the next week. When you eat something, write it down. And then at the end of the week, we review that list. Hey, it looks like you eat Haagen at 5 pm Every day. Why is that?
And you’ll say You know what? I eat it at 5 pm every day because when I come back from work, I’m so stressed out and Haagen Dazs is the only thing that causes my stress. Okay, now I’ve learned that the Haagen Dazs you’re eating that’s causing you to gain weight is a coping mechanism for the stress you’re experiencing. So let’s get to the root cause. Why are you having stress? Well, I realized that at 4:30 pm I have my daily meeting with my boss, and that’s stressful for me. Right?
Okay, great. Next week, what I want you to do, let’s ask your boss, if you can change that meeting to 9 am in the morning, or you can do it at a different time, right, or we can do something about that. But now we’re addressing the root cause. So you see how I wanted to lose weight, and nothing has been changed about your diet yet, what we’re doing is addressing the root cause we know there’s a source of stress that’s causing you to eat Haagen Dazs ice cream. And once we eliminate that source of stress, you won’t need the Haagen Dazs ice cream, right?
And that’s how we do it said behavioral change that getting to the root cause, and then building from the ground up, because what we want to do is build you a solid foundation, that you don’t need us for the rest of your life. Once you’ve built the foundation, you know, it’s kind of like teaching someone how to ride the bikes, put on the training wheels, teach them how to ride the bike, take the training wheels off, and they’re on, they’re off to the races.
Dr. Joel Rosen:
Listen as the lots of words of wisdom in there, and lots of sophistication, a lot of miles on the odometer to get to that kind of answer, which I appreciate a lot. I love that idea in terms of, hey, listen, we understand as a company, as a provider, that this information is dense and overwhelming, and we want it to be actionable.
And we could go so far deep into different areas, but we’ve decided to categorize it into six main things so that that hits home for you. And then we want to actually assess your daily activity in your daily life and your dietary habits and what your triggers are, so that we can understand that and then be able to make you understand that and have different ways that our little small changes over time that become habitual, so that your minim, minimizing any tendencies that you have, and that and maximize that are detrimental and maximize tendencies that you have that are supportive, so that ultimately the baseline of what you’re looking for, to get out of this is achieved, right, and where the other areas come in. And that’s where you have tempered or contingencies, where hey, we can also look into your mood and behavioral genes and see that you have this ADR a type tendency, which means that you may tend to ruminate more or have this addictive tendency.
So you’re going to be a little more trigger-happy to begin with anyway, right? Or that’s where having those putting those but maybe speak to a little bit of that then how you build on now that we’ve given you these individual six sections, here’s how some of the things overlap together. So that it’s not just a matter of understanding, like what are you doing on a daily basis, but also Mrs. Jones, realize that when you go for that Hagon DOS, because your boss is stressing you at a certain time, you also have this tendency to be more stressed and hold it longer as well. So how was that facilitated by the DNA company and your coaches?
Harris Khan:
Yeah, so we really and that’s it’s an important question, because, you know, we it’s not that there are six systems that we address separately, most of the gene pathways play a role across all six systems, right? So glutathione is, for example, an internal cellular process that’s involved essentially in dealing with toxins. So toxin comes into your body, whether it is, alcohol, drugs, smoke, mold, pollution, or viral infection.
So your body has to deal with that toxin. And glutathione is your body’s major antioxidant. Its job is to grab onto the toxin and shuttle it to the liver to produce it to prepare for metabolism and excretion. So when someone has poor detoxification, and poor glutathione activation activity because of their genes, that meaning they’re not as effective or efficient in removing these toxins.
There are so many places that play an impact. If those toxins are in your bloodstream, now your risk of inflammation in your bloodstream is higher so you can have vascular health concerns. Because you have so much toxin buildup in your body, you find yourself fatigued and tired and lacking energy even though you’re sleeping, you’re not getting enough energy. You’re also not dealing with estrogen toxins. So if you’re a woman, and you’re having menstrual health concerns, or you’re having you know, endometriosis something, these toxins are contributing to that.
So if I address the root cause at the genetic level of detoxification, I’m going to see a marked improvement across several systems, my cardiovascular health will improve, my energy will improve my sleep will improve my hormone management will improve so that’s the entire thing. What we do is we identify those root processes work on those processes, and then work with you to say accountable you know, keep you accountable. Are you doing what we asked you to do?
Are you avoiding these things are you so it’s really that touch point that helps people Pull, know that they’re not on their own? That’s the big thing. We’re not just giving you, you know, a death sentence and saying figure it out, we’re there with you every step of the way, kind of getting you on your feet, getting you walking, and then holding your head and making sure hey, your account of there’s someone here that’s following your health journey, for a period of time till you feel like you can do it on your own.
Dr. Joel Rosen:
Yeah, I think that’s a really great point in terms of the there are so many relationships, where if you’re not turning on the signal to signal the fire truck or the fire truck doesn’t have wheels, then it’s going to impact your cardiovascular risk, it’s going to impact your ability to sleep, it’s going to impact your neurotransmitter availability and depletion if they’re oxidizing neurotransmitters because of the inflammation, and I think it comes back down to at the end of the day, inflammation, right?
If we have too much inflammation then we’re able to deal with it, that’s where we have problems. And I think, again, as complex as it is the things that I teach people. Harris’s is that the bottom line is you have a demand and supply problem, you do not have as much supply as your demand. And just like if I had that at the 30,000, view, foot level, I’m not going to the South Beach, or I’m not going to the Mediterranean. In fact, I may not even go out for dinner, I may just have to decide at some point, do I keep the lights on?
Or do I put food on the table? And when that happens at the cellular level, that means okay, like my autonomic nervous system takes a backseat, or my ability to detox is hampered, or you know, and then ultimately, you start to go down that continuum of metabolic reserves being completely depleted to the point where that person is really hurting.
And so one of the things maybe I was going to ask you is, is that I know on the website, it says, like, unlock your genetic potential for work, play and wellness, optimization for high-performance people. Ultimately, that is the goal. But let me ask you, as it’s just sort of a cohort, or the people that come to see you, do they tend to be in the weak constitution just really struggling? I’ve been to a lot of different doctors and aren’t getting answers. And they want new insights on the sophistication of their health, or is it the athlete that is like, Hey, I’m amazing, but I want to be even more amazing? Where does it lie with the people who tend to get their testing with you guys? Yeah,
Harris Khan:
so I see that the spectrum is actually very wide and broad. And there’s, and there’s a beauty in that in the sense that no matter where you are in your health journey, doing an intelligent functional genomics test always reveals something that you didn’t know before, or maybe you had a hunch about, and it didn’t know what to do.
So there’s always valuable information that comes out of it for the athlete, he learns how he can personalize his approach to fitness, you know, even more personalized, and so now that you can start performing better, right like he learns that he needs to work out between six to 8 am in the morning, or five to 7 pm in the evening so that he can take advantage of his natural testosterone buildup and achieve greater maxes are greater, you know, you achieve better goals, that’s for the athlete.
But to your point, we also see a lot of people who have these chronic complex health concerns through which we offer a potential root cause for it, right? So a lot of, for example, a big quarter of the people we see are women who are approaching that Peri menopausal menopausal stage and are starting to exhibit symptoms, that their doctor, for some reason can’t understand right symptoms that often associated, for example, with Lyme disease.
And so they think, Well, you know, what, maybe I have Lyme disease, because often these women are spending time in cottages or, you know, somewhere right out in the wilderness. But what people don’t realize is estrogen metabolites, a buildup of estrogen metabolites, those symptoms mimic the symptoms of Lyme. Right. So we’ve had this situation, we’ve done the largest Lyme Disease study in Canada, over 1000 patients, and we found that up to 15% of people were misdiagnosed with Lyme disease, because of estrogen toxicity. So it doesn’t really matter where you are on the spectrum of health and wellness, there is going to be a solution for you.
And we’re going to build that unique solution for you based on where you are. I can tell the athlete you need to get rid of all these foods to achieve and he may do it because he’s fully invested. But I’m not going to give that advice to a person who’s never explored their health before, right? It’s gonna be a different conversation. And we understand that we don’t give the same plain old advice to everyone. We personalize the approach whether you’re at you know your work. No matter where you are on that health and wellness spectrum,
Dr. Joel Rosen:
yeah, it’s interesting too I mean, it’s great that you have the athletes just as a practitioner of people that are exhausted and burnt out, I’m, I usually joke around, like, I wish I was the first guy at the party, but I’m usually the last guy, and that’s where they’re exhausted, they’re frustrated, they have stacks and stacks of paperwork, they’ve spent 10s of 1000s of dollars, and they’re spinning their wheels. And that’s why we do interviews like this because they are misinformed in terms of what a genetic test gonna do. It’s, they think of the one gene, I have this or I have that.
But as they listen to this interview, they understand that it’s basically a combination of the environmental factors, your day-to-day activity levels, your genomic, your nutrition, and being able to customize a recovery strategy around that. And I always tell clients to because you, right, you touched on this earlier, it’s very intimidating to understand your genetics and you know, be waiting on the sidelines, like biting your nails, like, oh, like, am I? Do I have a lot of mutations?
Do I have the risk and this risk and that risk? And I always tell them, Listen, Mrs. Jones, there’s, there’s no bad news today, there’s only good news, we’re being empowered, it doesn’t serve us to be the ostrich and put our head in the sand and just kind of hope and pray that, you know, a small problem doesn’t go by the universal law of physics and become a crisis if we don’t address it, right. I mean, if you have a small fire, it’s going to become a big fire if you don’t extinguish it. But the good news is, is that, we are empowered, because now we can customize a recovery strategy around that.
So one of the things I would really be interested in in terms of the cohort, or the people that we see that are exhausted and burnt out, one of the things I tell them is that at the end of the day, like cells, tissues, organ systems all need to be able to work together to be able to coordinate a, the cell danger response, where we say, like, Hey, your demand and supply is off, we want to make sure that your body appropriately prioritizes the systems and then gets back on track. But one of the main things at the fundamental level that all those cells, tissues, organs, and systems have a challenge with is D synchronization, or they’re not in concert.
And I know it’s a big area of investigation for the DNA company in terms of clock genes. So maybe talk a little bit about your insight, what you see, and how you manage the recommendations for when you see some of those challenges, which would make someone more likely to have a higher impact of stress and fatigue. Right. So maybe explain a little bit about that.
Harris Khan:
Yeah. So you know, when someone says, Look, I’m feeling burned out, there could be a million different reasons for that, right? Our job with genetics is to help hone in on what the individual stresses in your life that’s causing your problem. For some people, because of their genetics, financial troubles are not a problem.
They don’t stress about them, they just get sued left, and right. And Senator, they’re in debt sometimes. But because they’re entrepreneurs, they know they’re going to see themselves out of it. But what does stress them out as a relationship at home? Other times, it’s the exact opposite. They’re great family, people, they’ve got no problems at home, but work stresses them out, right? So the stresses can be different. How they approach coping with the stress can also be different. Some people their escape is bungee jumping, skydiving, crazy, extreme activities. For other people, their coping mechanism is a spa, right? They want to go to the spa relax and enjoy a hot bath or something.
These are all genetically driven outcomes. So what we try to do is, when you say I’m burned out, and I have a lot of stress, and I have this fatigue, we’ll start by evaluating what the genetic genes are saying. So are you a person that is more prone to anxiety? Are you a person that’s more prone to PS PTSD? Are you a person who looks to food smoking or some sort of addiction as a coping mechanism? These are important questions we ask because it’s going to drive the recommendations we’re going to provide you then we want to understand okay, at the cellular level, beyond your mental relationship with stressors, Are you a person that has a poor detoxification response of poor methylation response, or your clock genes out of whack? Are you is do you produce low levels of BDNF?
These are questions we need to understand because I can’t say well you need to sleep more if you have trouble falling asleep in the first place. Right. So if your solution to reducing stress is you need to sleep more but you have low BDNF, I need to tell you that hey, when you go when you get ready for bed, I need you to put your phone away for the next hour right an hour before you go to bed. I need you to read a work before you go to bed, I need you to go to the sauna before you go to bed because I’m trying to address the low levels of BDNF, that when you increase them, you’ll be able to enter rested sleep.
And when you enter rested sleep that rest asleep is going to reduce your impact of stress. So that’s, you can see how to address the stress problem, I’ve got to go three or four steps back and give you recommendations there, then work with you as we get to the stress problem, right? So the approach to everyone’s burnt out or fatigue or stress is always individual and unique. And it will never be the same.
Like change your diet, change your supplements. For some people, maybe all they need is a supplement, it’s possible that all they need to do is take more L-theanine, for example, but in most cases, it is it’s a multifaceted approach. We have to address your lifestyle, your environment, and your nutrition, and potentially also introduce some supplements as necessary to support those outcomes. Yeah,
Dr. Joel Rosen:
no, absolutely. That’s a great answer. So as far as that being said, though, with your clinicians and your data so far, do you see reoccurring hotspots, if you will, where, even though everyone’s unique, and no two fingerprints are the same, or snowflakes are the same test as I see with some of the algorithms that I do if they have this particular profile, it doesn’t mean they’re doomed.
It just means that if the perfect storm does ensue, like you’ll see people you mentioned Lyme or mold, someone would fall apart in exposure to that, whereas the other person would be sort of a carrier, but not have the same challenges as it relates to stress. Harris, have you seen stress management and stress and burnout, whether it’s they ruminate about the finances or they ruminate about their family life? Or are there consistent patterns that you’re seeing with specific genes?
Harris Khan:
Yeah, so absolutely, we do see trends. So there are a number of genes that are involved with stress management. The first obviously is your calm Colm T catacomb, methyl transferase. The calm genes’ job when it comes to mood and behavior is its management of dopamine, right?
And dopamine is the pleasure neurotransmitter. And so when you have a slow version of your calm gene, meaning your calm gene produces an enzyme that doesn’t work as fast, dopamine tends to stay longer in your brain. And that can lead when it’s happiness, it leads to a really powerful, happy response pleasurable response to your person who sinks your teeth into things you enjoy. So if you really liked cheesecake, boy, do you like cheesecake?
And if you like business boy, or you invest in your business, you really take what you enjoy to heart. But the flip side of it is as you have high highs, you also have low lows, like your valleys are also pretty deep. And so when you get into a rut, you get really anxious about things. And it’s hard for you to come out of that rut because you think about all the different hypothetical ways a conversation could have gone, you get really self-conscious, you worry a lot more. So individuals with a slow calm generally tend to have that more anxious experience.
And when you pair that now with your address, which I spoke at the beginning of this podcast, your noradrenaline management, when you combine both of those things, you have a recipe for a person who’s more likely to be in a state of adrenal fatigue, like they’re always firing at the emotional level, they’re hypersensitive, they become attached to things and can’t get them out of their head. Now, it’s not all bad news.
These people are also hyper-aware of other people’s emotions. So they’re really good empaths, they can spot an angry face in the crowd. They know from your body language, that something isn’t right. And so they can be really helpful. So it’s not all bad news. But if you know that you’re a person who’s more likely to get anxious and stressed about things, then at least you can plan your day. So that you include things that make you happy after you do stressful tasks. So for example, if you’re a person who’s easily stressed, and financial matters, stress you, maybe you do your bill payments, right before you go on a holiday, just because you have something to look forward to. So you’re like if I deal with this stressful thing right now, then I go on my holiday and I don’t have to stress about it.
That’s a really effective way to help manage your stress, rather than I’m going to do my bills when I come back from holiday. No, no, no, no, no, don’t do that. Because you’re also going to be missing your holidays and you’re going to be upset about not having and now you’ve got to deal with this stressful thing. So even though it may feel uncomfortable, we say listen, you got to do this, because you’re going to feel you’re going to thank yourself at the end. Do the bill payments before you go on holiday versus after you come back from holidays. So yes, we do see trends and then we help build recommendations for the kind of prototypes or phenotypes that people have based on their genotypes.
Dr. Joel Rosen:
Yeah, and that’s That’s really, really great. And you know, so it’s interesting too because you talked about tempered or contingencies. So one of the things that I see, especially with Mike, people that are exhausted and burnt out specifically, that, again, as we said, demand and supply too much inflammation, oxidation, something called NADPH depletion. And when they have those up regulations of the NADPH depletion or mast cell activation, or too many excitatory things going on, and you’re depleting that NADPH, you’re not able to recycle your by Opteron and buy options and important cofactor to make that dopamine.
So then you kind of have this contingency where Okay, hangs around longer, it’s actually you think about this is where I’ve gone to as Harris as I think about that was at one time, biologically evolutionarily favorable, right for procreation, like warrior genes, right. Like, if you are in a time of famine, or feast, or just you have very little supply of things, and life was rough back then, in terms of we didn’t have these creature comforts, or there was a food sorter those things are going to serve you better, because you keep that neurotransmitter a lot longer in the, in the, in the synapse, right? So you’re going to, you’re going to procreate.
But now, given that, we have all of these environmental triggers that I don’t think our Creator kind of took into consideration when or when we were evolving, it will deplete the things that helped make it to keep it around longer.
And now it could be actually evolutionarily not favorable, because of the environmental things. But at the end of the day, there are so many minutia in terms of this makes that but if that hangs out longer than that’s not being made, at the end of the day, that’s where being the clinician, and asking the person like and that’s what I love about what you guys are doing is it’s not we’re just learning here, we’re applying.
And that means like, we’re not telling you about just your slow comp and to take something to clear like something to clear it out a little bit quicker. But we’re telling you like, Hey, do this activity, so that you don’t actually engage in in that gene to be relevant in the first place. But as far as Have you seen some of those connections about like, evolutionarily like, Hey, why would this continue to be passed on? And now it’s not as favorable? Like, do you? Have you made any of those connections as well? Yeah.
Harris Khan:
So I mean, not necessarily from the stress perspective, but a great example of what you’re talking about, is your vitamin D genes, right? So for example, I come from my ancestors come from, like, from the Middle East slash South East Asian area, right? So I’m, I’m originally from Pakistan, and Pakistan is located near the equator, my ancestors had access to the sun 365 days a year, 12 hours a day, like it’s, you know, you mean like you always had access to the sun.
Now vitamin D, is actually toxic for you in high levels, right, like you can get vitamin D toxicity. So our ancestors, because they were out in the sun all the time, they had ample access to the vitamin D that came from the sun, which was inactive. And when they needed to convert it, you actually use an enzyme that’s controlled by a gene SIPTU r1, that converts inactive vitamin D from the sun D to into d3, which is the active version.
Because my ancestors spent all their time outside, they didn’t need to produce a lot of vitamin D, because they’re always they always had access to it. Now take me, who then immigrates from where my ancestors lived, and moves to Toronto, Canada, where six months out of the year, there’s no son, their son, maybe four or five hours a day.
Dr. Joel Rosen:
I don’t live there anymore. So I had to know that.
Harris Khan:
Yeah, exactly. You’re closer to the equator. So it’s not as bad for you. But for me now here in Toronto, from November, when daylight savings time happens to March or April, I barely have access to the sun. And on top of that, I’m spending eight hours a day inside a room like working in an office. So I’m gonna have, you know, my genes don’t recognize that and then convert in my body to become faster. That’s not how genes work. That’s how population genetics work. Population genes change over time. through generations, it may take two three, or four generations before those genes start to change, right because you have you have an increased predisposition.
So for a person like me, the standard daily recommended dosage of Vitamin D is not going to work for me as it is going to work for someone whose ancestry is in Canada. Like they’ve been here. They’ve got a faster version. me I’ve got to take more vital Indeed, than the average person, right? So that’s an example of population genetics, where your answers just come from. And then where you move can have a huge impact on the recommendations you need to follow. But if you can expect your genes to change, it’s not going to happen that way, you got to address those genes. So that’s one example is the vitamin D. Yeah, that’s
Dr. Joel Rosen:
a great example. And as I go deeper down that rabbit hole, too, I think it’s a shame that just as an aside, we’re not testing this the actual form in 125. And I also think that it’s a shame that we don’t recognize, and I know the DNA company does it, but the receptor for dot, just the VDR receptor, but that’s also based on retinoids and vitamin A, and that also, I know, you do the BCM Oh, so that helps us understand, hey, how well do we convert beta carotene into vitamin A, but I’ve learned now that too much synthetic vitamin D, will block the absorption of vitamin A.
And if you’re not getting vitamin A, to be able to help with the receptors for vitamin D to get into the cell, it can be a whack-a-mole problem. So that’s one of those things where I sacred cows in my just in my world is I have to rethink about prescribing vitamin D, if we’re not understanding a like you said they’re their phenotype and their genotype of their particular potentials. Right, because that’s what they are, they’re not diagnoses, like you said, there is a greater potential for this to happen.
But at the same time, I need to also understand the other mechanics that are involved to be able to test appropriately like not just 25, but 125. Um, I don’t know, I mean, is that, is that something that you’re aware of? Or is that just sort of more new to you? Or where do you stand on that?
Harris Khan:
Yeah, so it is definitely something that we’ve just started to see as well, is that, again, it comes down to, you know, we know vitamin D is a concern for you. But again, we can’t look at it in a you know, in a silo right? So let’s see what the effect of giving too much vitamin D is going to do on the rest of your body. Right? So exactly, to your incredible point, is there a possibility that when I change because remember, people aren’t doing this?
So if you’ve never been taking vitamin D, and all of a sudden, you start taking 5000 IU of vitamin D 10,000 IU of vitamin D, under the guidance of a practitioner, you’re gonna see a lot of unexpected changes in your body, one of which might be the impact of vitamin A, one of which might be, you know, poor sleep, because you’re taking it the wrong time. Like there could be different things happening.
So, as always, we always say, okay, here are our recommendations. But absolutely treat it as a functional approach. Start slow, increase your dosage, note any changes, discuss it with your practitioner, speak to your clinician, speak to one of our coaches, and let’s tinker and tweak things as we move along.
And don’t expect that one day, you’re just going to do all the things and it’s going to change your life. It’s a gradual approach. So just to your point, obviously, you know, we test the BCM, or one gene, retinol, conversion of beta carotene, conversion and retinol. And we stress that listen, for example, if you’re a person who follows a plant-based vegan diet, all the beta carotene in the world isn’t going to be effective, like you’re going to turn orange because of your carrot and pumpkin consumption. But you’re not getting the retinol you need.
So you do need to consider an animal source of vitamin A, whether it’s synthetic, or it’s algae-based, or it’s, you know, you’ve cultured it, whatever it is, but you need that activator form because your body itself cannot do what it needs to do. And vitamin E is an extremely important vitamin that you shouldn’t just ignore it. So it’s a great point.
Dr. Joel Rosen:
Yeah, you know, just came into my head right now excuse the pun, but I feel like vitamin A is like the redheaded stepchild. You know, it doesn’t get the due diligence that it needs. But yeah, for sure. That’s a great point, especially for vegans, like, Hey, you have this BCM Oh, that you This is one of those instances where your dietary choice needs to be reconsidered like that you don’t have to change it, but realize that because of this specific gene, it’s going to impact so many things downstream that you have to consider getting that information alone would be worth that test, you know, to be able to do that. So as far as the 360 report card, did you I mean, you kind of touch on it already? I mean, basically, it’s an option to be able to just do a one-off gene test and be able to get sort of a report card. And then another option is to be able to do more of a concierge type, hey, we’ll hold your hand and get you through the to the end zone sort of speak. What is the report card consists of just in term is it sort of what we’ve already talked about?
Harris Khan:
Yeah, so in most cases, each system has its own kind of grading. So what you’ll understand as you go through the system is we’ll kind of assign kind of where you stand on the spectrum, right? So when mood and behavior might be, listen, you’re more likely to be like this, this this this. For something like sleep, we may give you a sleep grade, like you about asleep grade of C, or D. And here are the things you need to focus on. So the reports are designed to give you kind of a summary like, this is where you are, right, and they do have their recommendations.
But we offer the opportunity for you to say, Okay, what’s the next step, if I want to change this, and I’m ready to invest in my health and wellness, we offer a number of different approaches, you can do a digital consultation experience, where you get to listen to a personalized podcast that has all of your genes and the gene versions, you have explained to you in a really easy to understand manner.
We have a lot of behavioral change videos that teach you how to enact and incorporate behavioral change habits into your life. But even if you want a one-to-one experience, where they live coach, we have that opportunity as well. You know, we work with obviously, partners like yourself, your patients can come to you you’re fully trained in this experience, you can hold their hands and walk them through that. So really, we have the entire gamut. It comes down to how invested Are you in your health and wellness. And how much support would you like, we provide you that support at any level you’d
Dr. Joel Rosen:
like? Yeah, no, that’s great. And I like the aspect of the podcasts where they can basically you’ve gone the work of explaining each and every gene so that they can kind of is that more like a done for you like or done for yourself kind of thing? Where is that basically how that is? Yeah,
Harris Khan:
so it’s like, so we test like, you know, 60 Odd variations. So you get a podcast that gives you the result that you have. So for example, it would be like, you know, Joel, you have the AAA version of your comp gene. Here’s what that means. It means fundamentally that your comp gene produces a slower version of the enzyme. And then here’s where that impact can be felt in your mood and behavior, you’re going to be more like this in hormones, it’s going to affect you more like this, right?
And then we also say, Listen, you need to listen to the next gene, to find out what that version is. So you can understand the fuller picture. So it’s really like people who want to get a deep dive into their genetics and understand what these genes mean. Like, how are they actually impacting my health? We’ve created an entire personalized podcast that’s based on your results that they can listen to on their own time. Got
Dr. Joel Rosen:
you. And then so with a step back from that just be the actual report. Here you go kind of thing is their level as well. Yeah, gotcha. Yeah.
Harris Khan:
And for those people who just want the report and just need the guidance, we have that too. If they want to dive deep, they can dive as deep as they’d like, they can jump in the shallow end, and they can go right into the deep end, we’ve got it all for them. Right,
Dr. Joel Rosen:
and then just sort of evolving from there, which is sort of I think, right at the principal, you know, the beginning form of where it can take us is just sort of customizable, nutritional recommendations, right? So I used to kind of think, like, I, I want to know who’s the person who, or company or the algorithm that’s doing this, versus because I had a call a friend of mine, she works in one of those MLM companies, which, which is fine, like, and they said, we have these DNA supplements that are specific for your genes.
And I was like, like, knowing as much as we’ve known here and talked about, and I know, they were not as deep as what we, if they’re not the DNA company or some other companies, I know. Like, how are they coming up with that, and how naive it’s almost back down to the full circle of what we talked about earlier, in terms of, hey, let’s just take this for that gene, and it blocks it and we don’t have to worry about anything else. But with that being said, there is the whole 180 of we do specialized nutrient combinations, so we can maximize so we don’t want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and say, Hey, that’s not even possible.
We know it is possible because we’re also looking at these behavioral changes and implementations and understanding your tendencies and making sure that when the boss interviews you at 430, you’re not activating the, the you know, the response in the first place, or you have other methodologies to change to not allow it to create that domino effect. But with that being said, what is the approach with the customizable nutrition now, and how does that play in? Yeah, yeah.
Harris Khan:
So I mean, when it comes specifically to supplementation, our approach can be summarized as intelligently designed as necessary when necessary, right? And that’s an important point. You know, one of the things we always tell people is to listen, for example, when it comes to women, don’t take the birth control pill every day, right because you’re going to be messing up with your hormones.
But if you want to manage someone’s hormone production You give them supplements that slow down their estrogen metabolism, and you’re doing effectively the same thing that the estrogen pill is doing. Right. As a woman, I should not be taking estrogen management supplements every day of the month. Because my estrogen levels shift throughout the month, they go through a high peak, then they come down. If I’m not producing enough estrogens, when I need my estrogens to be high, I’m going to cause a lot of problems in my health and wellness.
So there are days when I’m not going to take my estrogen management supplements. And that’s the whole point. It has to be an intelligent approach. And it’s as necessary when necessary, we don’t believe you need to be on supplements for the rest of your life. But what we do believe is that when you take them intelligently, you are going to have an advantage like you are going to be able to take advantage of the benefit of the supplements, they can be effective. If you take them intelligently. If you’re just downing 1517 20 pills, hoping that they’re doing something like slowing down your genes. That’s not an effective approach. In fact, that’s a dangerous approach, you could actually be harming yourself.
And remember, supplements, like prescription drugs, still need to be metabolized by the liver, but you’re still putting effort impact, and stress on your liver to metabolize the supplements. So we do what we did is we looked at the genetic systems, and we created support formulations. And then we recognize that these formulations are taken on a necessity basis, like on a necessary need base, right? So the formulations are designed for mitochondrial support for detoxification for sleep. But most people take them under periods of stress.
So for example, if someone knows that they’re going to be traveling, or they’re going to be preparing for a triathlon, for example, they’re going to take higher doses of their mitochondrial support to increase energy. But when they’re in rest mode, like when they’re not training, they don’t need to take it. Don’t feel like you need to take it all the time. So our approach is intelligent lead design on an as-needed-when-needed basis.
Dr. Joel Rosen:
Yeah, that’s really awesome. And I think that’s something I hope to see more practitioners, especially in the holistic approach. I mean, I don’t think you’ll ever see it in the pharmaceutical approach, although I do feel like there are some applications like biohacking that not that people do, where you can do that. But that’s for advocating for nutritionally, I look at it as sort of that Goldilocks bell-shaped curve, right? You don’t ever want to be in the valley on either side of too little or too much.
Sometimes people have a really slow or short standard deviation, where they assume more is better, and more isn’t better, more can get you in the valley of too much. Right? So I explained to people, it’s hard to understand this. But hey, when you feel really good, don’t take the supplement. That’s pretty easy information. It’s like what do you mean? If it made me feel good? Why not take more? Well, because there’s this bell-shaped curve, if you take too much, now you’re in the valley of too much.
And you’re not utilizing it. So I like that saying is designed as necessary, when necessary is really great. But I think there comes with education about that, right in terms of because so many people are like, you know, have that Santa Claus, Santa Claus bag of supplements right before you even see them.
And at this point, they don’t know they’re bought from their elbow, right? And they don’t know if this one’s working, or that one’s not working. So I guess how have you overcome that obstacle of your clinicians and the DNA company in terms of, hey, we understand it’s as necessary when necessary, you know, by design? But how do you actually get them to understand when necessary, or when not just when they’re stressed? Or how does that impact? You know? Yeah, I guess recommended. Yeah.
Harris Khan:
And it comes down to what system we’re addressing. Right. So to your exact point, sometimes people need sort of an adrenal support product. They don’t need to take that when they’re calm, like when they’re on holiday, don’t take it because you don’t need it, right? Because what happens is you build a reliance upon it like it becomes a crutch for you. And that’s, that’s no different than any other drug. You know, we don’t these supplements are not supposed to be taken like opioids. But when you’re under periods of significant stress, there’s a deadline coming maybe you’re getting married, maybe you’re moving or you’re paying, you know, you’re dealing with some with the closing of a house or a mortgage, you may need that support, you may need a little bit more than you can get like you don’t have time to go to a meditation class or yoga.
You just need something that can support you. So in that case, we may recommend that take deep calm during periods of stress increased stress. Other products like estrogen management products will tell them to listen, as a woman in her menstrual years you need to take two pills from day one to seven gonna recycle one pill on day seven to 14, and then nothing for the next five days, then restart the cycle, right?
So it’ll depend on the ingredient we record, the supplement recommending, and the system we’re trying to address. But when we do give those instructions, they’ll come from our clinician say, this is exactly how you need to do it. And we give them the reasons why you need to do this because you don’t need it every day because it could harm you or it’s not going to be beneficial for you. So we really hold their hand and help them understand why before we make the recommendations. Yeah, that’s great.
Dr. Joel Rosen:
And just sort of with that specific example, just like sort of, to ask you from a clinical standpoint. So with the estrogen management, the 210, it’s more thought of in terms of as the menses, who that’s where you’re starting to have that rise of estrogen. So we want to make sure we’re supporting clearance and, and so forth. And then by the time it peaks, we’re down to one, and then the rest of the cycle, we it’s already on the descent anyway. So we don’t need to take it. That’s basically the mindset around that.
Harris Khan:
Yeah, you don’t want you to want to so if you’re estrogen dominant, and your job, all you’re trying to do is say, okay, because I’m producing a lot of estrogens, I want to mitigate the percentage of my estrogens that are being converted into those toxic metabolites like the four hydroxy 16, alpha hydroxy, estrogen, right so ingredients like calcium D glucose, a dim i three C sulforaphane, these are effective, but when I’m producing low levels of estrogen, I don’t want to take estrogen blockers, because that’s going to reduce my estrogen levels even further. And that’s not healthy either.
You need to understand how increased levels of estrogen can be mitigated without trying to lower them too much. So because your estrogen levels on day seven, are not the same as on day 20. You don’t need to take the same dosage, because your estrogen levels are at different levels. That’s that’s the approach that we have, right? So from a clinical perspective, our clinicians work and say, identify, during this period, take two pills during this period, take one pill during this period, take nothing, and then restart the cycle. So we give that that guidance. Yeah, it’s
Dr. Joel Rosen:
interesting. I mean, just as I would think, potentially have you flip flop maybe because again, within the women as well, like because their cycle shifted to the left or to the right as well, or it goes down. And it’s not just linear textbook, you know, zero to 14. And yeah, but I would think though, just thinking off the top of my head that potentially, seven to 14 would be two would be one, two, and then zero, but you found it to be more effective to be 210. Kind
Harris Khan:
of No, no, no, I’m just giving you an example. But I see I gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. The clinical dosage that our clinicians use is not right. All I’m saying is that the dosage shifts depending on what day of the cycle you’re on. And keep in mind, like you mentioned, because there are a few days to the left few days to the right, a woman almost instantly feels the impact of estrogen management supplements within the first two days if it’s off.
So we’ll get sometimes we get our clients, you know what, I’ve started my period, three days, early, or four days early, and our clinicians say Okay, so then I want you to shift your dosage. So instead of taking it for two, you know, two pills for the next two weeks, I want you to take it for, you know, the next five days and stop. Right, we will give them that guidance and you know, we work with them in that manner. Yeah,
Dr. Joel Rosen:
no, that’s, that’s key. I mean, you think that hey, like, it’s textbook, but you know, Mrs. Smith is her own person. And that’s where we need to discuss, okay, your genetics or this, your symptoms are here. Let’s, let’s, let’s tweak it a little bit here. There. So that’s, that’s awesome. I love that. So one of the questions I always ask, and I’m sorry, I didn’t give you the heads up on this, but because I forgot how before we were talking off camera, one of the question is, hey, knowing what you know now versus what you didn’t know.
And you’re sort of you’re bright-eyed and bushy-tailed yours about stress management about these, if you will, bio hacks, and you and I kind of joked around in terms of, hey, like, this is the ultimate Biohack. As I understand biohackers want to increase their their performance. But it’s kind of like the medical approach of taking this pill and expecting it to be a magic wand and fix everything. Whereas we’re getting into the nitty gritty, and really explaining how it works and how to apply it which is great.
But without all being said, and now with your Sage-like Wisdom, what would be advice to the young, bright-eyed, and bushy-tailed Harris in terms of how you could have avoided or sped up or Accelerated your health or your stress response or ultimately your vitality that you know now that you didn’t know then.
Harris Khan:
Yeah, I think the most important thing is you know, we always get caught up with what we see in media, right? So, as you know, from my own personal genetics, having studied them I learned when I looked at my genetics, that I was more of an S trojanized male, right? So not, that didn’t mean that I was more effeminate or anything like that, it just meant that my production of testosterone was lower than the average male.
And so I would look, you know when I was younger, I would like to look at Instagram or TV, and I’d see all these guys buffet and say, you know, no matter what I do, I can get there. But once I learned about my genetics, I realized that even when I put on strength, and I put on muscle, and I can lift heavier weights, I’m not going to look like Arnold Schwarzenegger, it’s not going to happen, right, and let’s put the steroids aside.
But I’m never gonna get that cut-defined, you know, male model look because my body isn’t built that way. And that’s okay. Because the key is I want to put on more strength, whether or not I look good, doesn’t really matter. It’s the strength that matters. And so that shift, that mind shift actually helped reduce a lot of the stress and cortisol production rate, which was impacting my goals.
So when I became less stressed about looking a certain way and having those defined features, I actually started putting on more muscle fast, because that stress and the cortisol production were actually being a block to what I was trying to achieve. So the advice I have for anyone who’s looking to change their health and wellness or improve it is to start with something that you can trust and is objective. And there’s nothing better than looking at your DNA because that’s a unique individual to you. And then always seek out intelligent clinical advice, right? Your clinicians who are trained in this are your best source of advice because they have that approach.
And they’re aware of things that you as a consumer layperson may not be. So don’t go and start off a ketogenic diet on yourself, make sure that you’re talking to your clinicians, and they’re in the loop because they can give you guidance that can actually help you achieve your goals faster, while reducing any risk associated with some of the decisions you make. Yeah, you know, I gotta
Dr. Joel Rosen:
tell you, Harris is probably one of the best answers I’ve had, because it kind of sums up everything we talked about, in terms of the reasons why to have a functional genomic and interpretation, right, because we need to have a paradigm shift of what’s possible in our body, it’s not just a one size fits all, and you read a magazine, and I was the guy that would read those magazines, and you know, want to look like that.
But if I never did, I’m spinning my wheels. And I’m frustrated. And I’m doing lots of different things mentally and physically to get there that are outside of too much in the Valley of, you know, too much kind of thing. And that is very stress-inducing. That can cause a domino effect that causes the gym’s potential that I have to be it’s exaggerated and cause more problems.
And, but now to have the insight to know, okay, I kind of need to read a fine based on what’s going on to me individually. And that is like cutting away the anchors of having the burden of not getting there and saying hey, like I can maximum and like the irony is, is that when you let go of that, that’s when you had the best results, and it wasn’t by accident. So that’s probably one of the best answers just as a, as an aside, for me, one of my tendencies, which I had no idea about is we look at like inflammation and my ability to you know, signal the firefighters let alone having the wheels to get there is a big challenge for me. But on top of that, as you know, inflammation will typically inhibit certain other enzymes.
And one of the enzymes that I have major inhibition with or delayed with is the GA D enzyme, which helps to convert glutamate into GABA, and on top of that, cofactors for that as magnesium, which if you’re under stress you’re going to be depleted with and then another cofactor for that is ATP. So if you’re under stress, and your body’s not producing ATP, because of mitochondrial issues, and you’re inflamed, and you have that tendency, you’ll be an anxious guy, like and I was an anxious guy, it was like, you know, sweaty palms before a track meet, not wanting to get off the bus because I just had like overwhelming anxiety before the start of the race, or an exam or speaking in public.
And then once you learn, Hey, that’s my tendency, I need to control inflammation and support, you know, my ATP production, but I also am empowered to know like, okay, like, slow your roll, like, you know, get your breathing down and understand your tendency because this is kind of how it expresses was super, super empowering, right? So I would encourage everyone else, like you just said, to understand their phenotype and their genotype to know how to design their behavioral habits and all like you could be the Dalai Lama and think and Do as much as you want. But if you don’t get into biochemistry and and address those things to to half the work together so awesome to interview any any other pieces of wisdom or pearls you want to share at this time,
Harris Khan:
I think we went through a lot of them, I think that’s going to be really hopefully your your, your, your listeners are going to appreciate, you know, just this is just scratching the surface. Like I said, like when you jump into your own results, like, you know, I’ve done, my test was done pretty much coming now to five years ago, right? I did my test like five years ago. And even to this day, I continue to learn new insights about my jeans, just new things like, Oh, I didn’t even realize that this was working this way.
And you know, when we look at newer jeans, I got my jeans tested again and said, Oh, wow, I didn’t have an idea. But this insight, and then you start implementing those changes. And some of those changes. You see, within days, you’re like, holy crap, I change this. And within days, I could see that improvement. So, you know, I would say that it’s a super exciting journey. When you’re when your listeners, you know, anyone who decides to jump on this program, it’s just it’s going to it’s going to cause that paradigm shift. You’ve been looking for your entire life when it comes to improving your health and wellness. So I look forward to working with anyone who’s listening to this and is ready to take that that dive. Yeah,
Dr. Joel Rosen:
it’s interesting you say that because I even say to some of the clients that I’ve done interpretations for like, if I’ve done an interpretation for you longer than six months ago, we should reopen up the Pandora’s box and look at what’s new, because knowledge is just accelerating at light speed of how we understand. And I always say you get these little shades of gray with a different hue to now add so much more information and connect a lot of the dots that are implementable that we didn’t know before.
And it’s constantly changing. And it’s it is what we’ve always said like health is a verb. It’s not a noun, you know. So that’s awesome. Listen, I really enjoyed this conversation, I hope our listeners get a lot of value out of this, we will have some links to learn how they can go about getting their own DNA looking at all the different options of interpretations, and working with providers. So I just want to thank you for spending your time with me today.
Harris and I look forward to part two, say six months down the road when we have all these new, you know, RS ID genes that weren’t really on the radar that this as a last thing. Do you know if the DNA company uses the NIH RS ID significant genes that have been researched? Is that how you put together your profiles for adding new gene snips to your report cards?
Harris Khan:
Yes, exactly. So that’s exactly the approach we only handpick or hand-select those functional snips for which we can see a clear, repeatable clinical impact, right? So we’re not picking a snip that has one animal study on a rat that was done 20 years ago. No, it needs to be repeatable. We need to be able to see that function. It’s clinically verifiable. So yes, exactly. We have a very stringent and complex comprehensive approach to identifying the snips that we study. That being said, we’re probably on pace for our largest introduction of snips. Since we’ve started the company happening in the next six months, we’re looking to add close to 400 more snips that we’re currently reviewing, and ensuring that they all meet the specific criteria we have. So there’s a lot of exciting things that people can look forward to.
Dr. Joel Rosen:
Those will keep the same six categories or will you add different categories?
Harris Khan:
That will be we’re gonna Yeah, we’re definitely yeah, we’re gonna be adding a lot more new report. So the six categories will be there. But we’re going to be introducing new reports like longevity, female, hormone health, male hormone health, child development, career development, it’s going to be an exciting time, like, you’re gonna have access to all these different reports. So it’s gonna be pretty cool. That’s awesome.
Dr. Joel Rosen:
And then just as a last thing with the person who did the report with the other gene chip need to get a new gene chip to be able to have the new report. So
Harris Khan:
the beauty is we’re what we do is if we have new genes, we’re able to conduct studies on your saliva, if you so choose to, without having to collect a new saliva sample. So we store genomic data, but not for the purpose of data selling, it’s for this exact purpose so that when we introduce genes, you can study those genes. Now the stored data is stored anonymized, no one has access to it except for us. And we will never ever sell your genomic data. We’re not in that. Yeah.
Dr. Joel Rosen:
Well, yeah, that’s two important points is number one like, That’s awesome to know that to be able to know, hey, we have it there. So we can just run your sample and look at the news version that we have. So we don’t have to submit that. And then number two, which is very, very common, and when I come across with this, oh, like you’re going to sell the data to China and this that and the other And even if that were the case, I don’t know, maybe you and I can brain trust, like, how would we be able to do anything with that? Anyways? I don’t even like what would be Yeah,
Harris Khan:
it’s it’s this, it’s this, it’s this false dichotomy. Look, the people who complain about Oh, someone’s gonna get access to my data are the same people who have an iPhone, they have a Gmail account, they have a Facebook account, they have a WhatsApp account, if anyone wants to find out any information about you, they’ve already found it out.
There’s nothing Netic Data Association-based genetic data can tell you that someone doesn’t already know. And it’s not even usable for insurance purposes. So there’s literally no use to your genomic data. But people are concerned because it’s their genomic data. And that’s why we promised them regardless, we will never sell genomic data, it’s not in our business plan. Yeah,
Dr. Joel Rosen:
well, that’s those are, again, more important points. But I like that it’s like the vegan with leather shoes, right? It’s the, but at the same time, it’s like, it’s not like these, like really sinister people are in these labs and figuring out how to, like, you know, adulterate these jeans, and it just doesn’t work like that. But at the end of the day, you’re right, people want to know, that my jeans are protected by being sold to other people.
And that’s not happening and the DNA company is in their business model to not do that whatsoever. So people can rest assured that this is completely private, stored, and completely secure when you’re getting the information. And at the end of the day, it becomes down to like you said is, How bad are you suffering? Like, you know, if you’re suffering so bad, and the ends justify the means you got to do whatever it takes, we got one life to go around here. And we need to maximize our quality in the little time that we have. Those people probably have a lot of anxiety genes that they need to understand about right to be able to do that.
Harris Khan:
Yeah, absolutely. Exactly. To your point. Look, we’re, we’re in the business of helping people achieve a better version of themselves. We’re not, you know, trying to capture their data and run away, maybe some other big companies are literally all the data we collect gets fed into machine learning algorithms, which then innovates, our approach to healthcare just makes it better. So your data is anonymized.
And then it’s used to improve the access and approach to healthcare, which leads to better outcomes, I can’t think of a better way of contributing to the advancement of healthcare than to do it in this manner. Like when we’re not big pharma. We’re not you know, anything that you need to worry about, we’re here literally helping people achieve a better version of themselves without having to take drugs without having to rely on different mechanisms, just doing things in a more intelligent, functional individual way. So if anyone is still concerned, like I said, we do not sell genomic data, and we anonymize all data as it’s received. Yeah. And it’s
Dr. Joel Rosen:
encouraging, right, because, like, I’m from Canada, and I moved to the US, and I had a lot of friends that like poopoo it and you know, and I said, like, it’s the best of the best, and the worst of the worst. That’s how I feel here. But in general, with health care, and with what’s going on in the world, and just crazy times that we live in, it can be daunting in terms of like the sky is falling, and like we’re really past that point of no return.
And we’re getting really worse and worse and worse. But then when you have machine computerized learning of genomics and how we can maximize our health potential, it’s the best of the best, it’s the ability to really, you know, have a high quality of life and avoid a life of chronicity and disability and so forth. So listen, I appreciate I can talk to you forever. I enjoyed our conversation, I’d love to be able to do a part two seriously down the line when new insights are coming with the longevity and the female and the male stuff to give our listeners some new tools to empower them. But until then, Harris I wish you an amazing new year and for you personally and your family and for your company as well.
Harris Khan:
Thank you so much appreciate being on the call, Dr. Rosen. It’s always a pleasure to speak with you. Look forward to chatting again in the future.
🔥Which Health Choices Are Right for Your Genes?
