Dr. Joel Rosen:
We have such amazing guests and a real pleasure to interview Dr. Alan Bauman, who is a full-time hair transplant surgeon who founded his medical practice Bauman Medical in Boca Raton, Florida right next to me a stone’s throw.
He’s treated over 30,000 patients and performed over 10,000 hair transplant procedures to date. He’s a compassionate Patient Center, and he has an individualized artistic approach to protecting, enhancing, and restoring the appearance and the health of the hair and the scalp, which is what sets him apart from non-non-specialists and other practitioners.
He moved to Boca Raton with his wife, Karen received his MD degree from New York Medical College surgical residency training at Mount Sinai, and Beth Israel Medical Center in Manhattan, and his hair transplant fellowship training in New York. And I could go on and on, but I want to spend time on getting into the goods. So thank you so much for being here today.
Dr. Alan Bauman:
Oh, thank you, Joel. It’s a pleasure. It’s great to be here with you.
Dr. Joel Rosen:
More. So on my side, Alan, because I know that you are a leader, I followed your career, as I told you, when I met you many, many years ago, when you were on the other side of town. And I’m just so happy to get you on the podcast today.
What we always start with is your journey, and how you got into not just this field, a specialty in in medicine, but how it correlates or corresponds with your health journey. And it’s made a sort of a better approach to health care, not just for the patient, but for yourself. So maybe sort of inundate our listeners with your journey.
Dr. Alan Bauman:
Yeah. So I mean, you know, if you asked my grandmother when she was alive, you know when Outline decided he wanted to go to medical school, she probably would have said the day he was born. So you know, I just had another patient here in the practice, who said he was born with a stethoscope in his hand. And so I don’t know if it was just preordained like that. But it was a good thing. Probably I was okay at science and math and biology and all of that.
But I didn’t know much about what kind of medicine I wanted to practice until I had the opportunity to watch the surgery. And my first mentor was a plastic surgeon, and he invited me to come and watch the surgery. Remember, this is like in the 1980s, before Discovery Channel before YouTube. So everything was kind of behind closed doors and a mystery to me until I got a chance to look over his shoulder and see surgery in action. And I knew immediately that that’s what I wanted to do, I was pretty good with my hands I was like a tinkerer, and that way fixers fixed and fixed things. And so he was a very prominent plastic surgeon. And I always thought I’d follow in his footsteps doing cosmetic surgery, plastic surgery, at least maybe that’s kind of where I started.
And so through my general surgery, internship, and residency training, that’s where I thought I was going to be, I stuck with him and shadowed him over many years. But it wasn’t until I met a hair transplant patient, that I even thought about hair transplantation. I mean, normally, we would never see that in plastic surgery. And this patient just happened to be coming in for something else. He’s in the hospital on being a good resident taking a medical history. And in there, it said hair transplant, I’m looking at him trying to figure out, you know, like where his hair was transplanted, because I was assuming it was going to be plugged or weird looking, you know, just about everybody else would think the same thing in the mid-1990s.
And so we got into this kind of casual conversation at first about his hair. And he was pretty excited to discover that I wasn’t unable I was unable to detect that he had had a hair transplant.
And we began this conversation really from a layman’s point of view, why he went to the doctor, he went to and, and so forth. And I thought that that was so interesting about the microsurgical techniques and the artistry he described in terms of the restoration. But what I remember most about that conversation was the impact that the hair restoration had on him because it was the emotional component. And he described how his life changed professionally and socially after getting his hair restored.
And so I kind of thought at that time, maybe I should look into this. And it was you know, it wasn’t a complete 180 turnaround. It was just a small step in that direction that initially led me down the path of learning, hair restoration techniques and technologies that were just coming of age microsurgically to create an undetectable look. And I was super excited about that and thought I could bring that to the world of plastic surgery.
And eventually, I got so far down the road on the hair transplant with another mentor. Having traveled and visited several different clinics nationally and internationally I just decided to do hair transplants full-time. And so that was more than 25 years ago, after my training and fellowship and hair transplant surgery, and moved to Boca Raton, Florida. You know, fast forward, as you said, I’ve treated 30,000 patients in over 25 years.
Today, we’re up to over 13,000 hair transplant procedures and such. But my health journey is a little bit different. You know, it wasn’t until I was hitting middle age, and noticing because I do work pretty hard. You know, I get up at five every day. And I’m in surgery here in the office, probably by six or seven every day, weekdays and so I have a pretty demanding schedule. About 15 years ago, I noticed that maybe my physical stamina wasn’t the same mental stamina was a little bit different.
My waistline was certainly increasing. And I was invited to a ski trip and I hadn’t skied in like 10 years. And so I kind of knew that I had to sort of make a change. And in that beginning phase, I started to take a small step again, not a 180, but small steps in the right direction of fitness and health. I had already been a member of the American Academy of anti-aging since the 1990s. So I was already familiar with functional medicine and the approaches to longevity that were not even called longevity up until more recently.
And so I started changing my diet, my nutrition, my time window for eating, I started to focus more on my sleep, my exercise regimen. Again, it sounds like all these things changed immediately. But it’s been a 10-year journey. And that has led me also at the same time to be more mindful of my patient’s metabolic situations. And so looking at hair loss and hair follicles as a very, very strong barometer of health because it’s one of the most highly metabolic cell populations in the body. That led us to identify a lot of metabolic issues, autoimmune issues, dietary issues, lifestyle problems, everything from stress, and you name it that affects the hair follicle.
Eventually where we are today developing an entire functional medicine program within Baumann Medical with several different experts, including experts in hormone optimization, endocrinology, fitness, and nutrition, to be able to take care of those patients that need that little piece of extra wellness, to just get them optimized, if you will. And then now to extend that into lifespan and health span. So it’s been a pretty interesting journey. The battlement performance program is really what I just told you about. And that’s launched launched just recently. So it’s been very, very well received by my patient population.
They’re super excited about it and they know about my biohacking journey if you want to call it that. And so, you know, it’s been very cool to perform hair transplantation for 25 years still performing hair transplants every day. And then also to offer this added, you know, lifestyle medicine concierge medicine program in the practice right here under our roof, if you will, at the headquarters in Boca Raton, Florida.
Dr. Joel Rosen:
No, I love it. Thank you for taking us down the trip down memory lane. It’s kind of like a kid in the candy store where he discovered or the caveman discovers fire when you saw the whole hair restoration, especially what resonates with me, Alan is how life-changing it was because in different medical fields, sometimes you don’t get to see the outcome or the continuity of care. So it kind of fits all the things that perhaps you are looking for.
And I would say even the new program on longevity isn’t just for a unique percentage of the people you’re seeing it ultimately can be applied to all of them so that their health outcomes are that much more, I guess, substantiated or received, the question I would have for you is how much would you say the problem of hair loss or follicle health or restoration has accelerated or have increased incidents over the years because of the toxic stressful environmental epigenetic factors that sort of overlap with the genetic blueprint, if you will, do you see that that’s accelerated over the years or stayed the same, but what do you think?
Dr. Alan Bauman:
Absolutely. Yeah, accelerating. I mean, there were signs and symptoms of this even 1015 years ago in the practice that we were seeing younger patients with more aggressive hair loss from all over the world. And so, is it the level of stress is it our metabolic health? Is it our nutritional, you know, status that you know, our is our food, you know, De nutrify Are we not getting in a fuel what’s going on? And I think it’s a confluence of a lot of different things is it, you know, hormone triggers or, you know, in our environment and our, in the products that we come into contact with, that could be dysregulated our health and, and so we’ve seen an acceleration.
So that was like over a decade ago, where the patients were skewing younger seeing more aggressive hair loss. But then, of course, more recently, with the pandemic. It’s like Lightspeed acceleration of hair loss, and so many people. I mean, I’ve treated personally over 1000 COVID-related hair loss patients, and these are people either had been infected with COVID-19 vaccinated and not infected or just simply locked down over time. And they noticed that whatever little bit of hair loss they were experiencing, previously, dramatically accelerated, whether it was a massive shedding or what we call telogen, effluvium.
And then eventually looking at their accelerated male or female pattern of hair loss, or autoimmune issues, women and men that we had treated, and put into remission, alopecia conditions, autoimmune conditions of the scalp, and then all of a sudden, they’ve gone through this process again, is it the stress? Is it the COVID? Is it the vaccination? Is it you know, something that’s going on with the microcirculation, or their immune response? I don’t know that all the answers, I just can tell you clinically, it’s exploded. And so the demand for hair restoration treatments and procedures is just been unbelievable.
And it’s evidenced in the growth of the practice, as well as the number of practitioners that come to me, who want to add hair loss treatments and services, you know, to their repertoire. And we do those teachings and training, you know, maybe not necessarily hair transplants unless someone’s looking to learn like an eyelash transplant or something new and different than they’re already doing. But I’m talking about just the, you know, medical practitioners who realize that they’re seeing a lot more hair loss out there. And they want to know what to say and what to do.
And to be able to at least be like the first responder, if you will, maybe not necessarily the cardiothoracic surgeon for trauma, but you know, but the first responder to to like, you know, stop the bleeding, so to speak with the hair loss situation, and then, you know, have also a reference and a resource for quality prescription items, medical devices, treatments and procedures, even just advice, you know, and so we call that the hair coach program for professionals, beauty professionals, medical professionals and surgeons and everybody in between.
And, of course, the general public too. So, yeah, it’s been unbelievable to see the acceleration of hair loss over the past couple of years. And then the last thing I would just add to that is the zoom-in boom, I mean, here we are on a podcast, right, but if you’re locked down, and you’re out of the boardroom, the only way to connect with the boardroom, again, is to be virtualized.
And so if you’re on Zoom, now, the guy that you know, woke up with his eyes blurry, maybe even turned on the lights or combed his hair, you know, now he’s in his office, under a bright light and a video screen, and he’s looking at himself in the mirror, or a woman looking at herself in the mirror, well, I should say in the video, mirror, and then noticing that maybe their skin or hair from here up is looking a little bit different. And they want to take some action. So it’s kind of an interesting confluence of things that occurred physically with the hair loss, and also awareness of hair loss.
Dr. Joel Rosen:
Yeah, it’s amazing to sort of look on the inside of your journey, Alan, and see how exciting every day brings. And it’s, you almost know what you don’t know. And it’s always a time to learn how much all of the factors and a little bit of this a little bit of that contribute to not just overall health but specifically hair follicle health. So maybe take us in on the inside and look over your shoulder, when you’re assessing someone who’s coming in, with hair loss concerns and how you work them up and be able to pull apart all the different bunches of yarn that get, you know, I guess, all tangled what how do you how do you unlock that process?
Dr. Alan Bauman:
Yeah, I mean, you know, it’s not cliche to say that it’s a holistic approach because a holistic approach to health and wellness and whether you’re talking about your skin or your hair is mandatory. After all, we realize that everything is connected. And even though in medical school and training, you know, we were taught how to burn it out, suck it out, cut it out, you know, that’s not how the body works.
And we take a systems biology approach and many of these cases just like, you know, on the more consumer side where we call it biohacking it used to be just health and wellness. But when a person comes in with a hair loss concern, obviously I want to know what that concern is and I know that hair is a very emotional Oregon so before they call click or visit, you know, we already know that there’s some emotion attached to it, or else they wouldn’t be making that first action.
So making sure that the website and the email are responded to or the first phone calls responded to Warmly and compassionately, is the first taste that a patient will have of what we do here. Bauman, medical. And you know, my first-line people have been with me for many, many, many years. And they’re super highly trained. This is not like some receptionist or call center that we’ve got. I mean, these are people who have been with me in the practice for maybe a decade or more. Some of my front office people have been with me for over 14 years.
So that’s the first and most important thing. So they feel comfortable that hey, we understand the situation emotionally first. And then when the patient comes in, we’re gonna take a very detailed medical history and inventory, not just of their medications and previous surgeries and what they’re being treated for, but also lifestyle factors. As I mentioned, we know that stress nutrition, and sleep-wake cycles, all can dysregulate the hair follicle and function for sure. And so we look at all of that. And then we’re going to look at the scalp and so from a distance, you know, does this does the scalp is it receding hairline and a male patient is or loss of coverage. And for a woman is there a change in texture color?
Is she dealing with some kind of haircare regimen that’s forcing her to create damage to the hair fibers, right, the hair fibers are dead, but the follicles are alive, like a 3D printer producing the hair fiber. So we’ve got to have good nutrients and fuel for that. And then what is their hereditary tendency towards hair loss, so they have hair loss, male side, female side, men’s mom’s side, dad’s side, I should say, you know, in the family, let’s look at that genetic history just in the, you know, we don’t have to go to Facebook or the photo album, but we can find out from them, you know who in their blood relatives are dealing with hair thinning or hair loss. And then, of course, we can look even deeper, right? So we can do an AI-powered measurement of the hair density in different areas of the scalp within minutes, and quantify her caliber and density down to the hair-to-hair microscopy.
That will tell us a lot about what’s going on at the level of the scalp and perform those baseline measurements so that we can track it over time. And then we’re going to look at whether we could also perform biomarker testing. So could be blood testing hormone testing could be you know, everything from iron to protein intake. And so for iron levels of protein intake, we’re going to look at maybe their DNA to see if there is a tendency towards hair loss or metabolic conditions or metabolic pathways that might influence hair loss and such. So those are some of the basics that we start with, you know before we even get into any kind of therapies and treatments. It’s a download, I mean, it’s like, you know, upload download kind of situation where we’re gathering all of this information.
And that’s why my consultations take about an hour or so to perform all these diagnostics and measurements. But I think it’s really important that we’re not just looking at whether this patient needs surgery or not. And I mean, I’ve never been that way to be honest, because I’ve always had preventative therapies in the treatment regimen. Since the day I opened the door, and you know, 1998 1997
Dr. Joel Rosen:
Now that’s awesome. You see a lot in the surgical field where the patient is the metaphorical nail and the doctor is the hammer, and everyone gets the same approach, unfortunately, but specifically with what it is that you do, there are so many ins and outs and what have used for you to be able to deliver the best recommendations and what works for the patient.
One thing I will have to say just as an aside, I’ve always been an admirer of your approach the your marketing being ahead of the curve, and not just smoke blowing smoke up your skirt. But success leaves clues. And given that you’ve had your staff be around as long as they have I guess the two-part question I wasn’t even asked planning on asking you this. But where did you learn that?
Was that inherent? And secondly, was that driven from a mission-based purpose that you guys kind of huddled around every day to be able to kind of get connected to why it is that you do this? And everyone’s on the same page wasn’t sort of anticipating that but while I got you here today, where did that come from?
Dr. Alan Bauman:
Yeah, I, you know, I wish I could point to one specific thing. But I can tell you that, you know, when I started my practice 25 years ago, I didn’t have any team members. I didn’t have any staff. My wife was a teacher, she was teaching at the time. And I said, Listen, I’m opening, we’re opening this practice, and I need you to help me. We can’t afford to have any staff. So you’re answering. So she would answer the phones. And of course, I did the consultations and the surgery. And of course, the practice grew from there.
And today we have over 30 team members. I think from the very beginning, you know, once we had a full-time team, having a mission and philosophy was super helpful. Several years ago, we created a list of core values, and that was created by the team. And so it’s listed on the website, you can read about it. And I have a core leadership team that helps manage the practice.
And so these are I wouldn’t say department heads but they have you know some good responsibilities in the practice and they’ve been around a long time. And so those are the key players that helped me kind of The Board of Directors if you will, but it’s more like a leadership team. And, you know, I think just creating a culture that I like to I want to be in the facility, I know, I’m gonna spend a lot of time here when I built this office, and I moved out of the original office, almost 10 years ago, I built a location that I want to, that I physically wanted to work in that I felt comfortable. And, you know, I wanted to have a lot of natural light, I wanted it bright, I wanted to clean, I wanted to organize.
And I think that the culture kind of extends from the people that have been with us, because if you’re not part of that, you know, team culture here, you kind of stick out like, very quickly, and so you will not last, I mean, today, you won’t last through an orientation week, years ago, you wouldn’t last, you know, a week of employment if you didn’t fit the culture.
So I’ve been very, very lucky and blessed with people who are passionate about what we do, and how we change lives for the better every single day. And I’ve just continued to grow that practice, grow the practice, using those core values. And today, you know, my HR director will put a person through a very rigorous protocol of questions and interviews and observations and things like that, before they even get considered for a spot on the team. But, you know, we’re always looking for good people.
So if there’s anybody out there, who you know, and maybe you don’t know, that you’re interested in hair loss, or hair restoration, or longevity, or wellness, or maybe you have some inkling, and no matter what your background, if you have the right attitude, then you might be a good candidate to be a member of our medical team. And so I would encourage you to apply if there’s someone out there. Yeah, that’s awesome. So we do, we do a lot of team building stuff.
Dr. Joel Rosen:
That’s great. I like that in that. It also allows you to be the expert at what you do, you know, you get to focus in on the 5% of, if you will, what makes you special and you can go deep down that versus you know, going very wide, and spreading yourself too thin.
So thank you for sharing that as far as so let’s say you’ve done the workup and you’re you’re looking at your from the moment they call, they’re getting supported and you’re hearing what their challenges are and you’re doing your workup. What would you say the the next step is in that or what’s the most common finding you see? And what are the different avenues you go down from there?
Dr. Alan Bauman:
Sure. So one of the things that we asked about specifically is if they’d have any scalp health symptoms, is their scalp itchy, flaky burning is dandruff? Do they have occasional folliculitis or pimples on the scalp? Things like that?
And do we uncover any of that during the examination process I think that scalp health is a very important foundation for good hair growth. And so I have an entire department called the trichology. The department psychologist on staff is a certified psychologist cosmetologist who’s got extensive training in hair and scalp health. And so think of how an esthetician might help a plastic surgeon prepare the skin and heal the skin around the time of surgery. A tree ecologist does the same for a hair restoration physician.
And she has a very robust following. She does what we call scalp makeovers, she can do everything from cranial prosthetic devices fitting and cutting and such and everything from coloring and color and cutting and such as well as the trichology aspects, which is the kind of interesting science of the health of the scalp. So want to make sure that that’s kind of, you know, make sure that we identify that. But the most important thing to get any patients started with is some preventative therapies.
And so what are the things that we’re going to do initially, you know, for a young guy with male pattern hair loss, well, we’re going to talk about pharmaceutical intervention, nonchemical treatments, maybe photo suitable meaning photo, bio modulation, or nutraceuticals, nutritional supplements and things like that. And then dovetail that with maybe some regenerative treatments that could be dumped at something autologous, like PRP comes from your own body. There may be other therapies and treatments that we do and that regenerative medicine capacity, but we want to stabilize the hair loss process first.
And so we always begin with that preventative aspect before we jump and run into some degree of hair transplantation. So if hair transplants are needed those areas are going to be depleted of density, either moderately or severely, they’re going to need to be repopulated with permanent hairs.
And so if it’s necessary to do transplants, of course, we’re going to talk about it, but we would never do a hair transplant if there’s an ongoing active hair loss process. So we’re gonna do everything we can to put the brakes on that so that we can keep the hair that they have. And the good news is that there’s a lot of effective treatments that are out there, not just the, you know, over-the-counter or cloud pharmacy versions, but stuff that’s a lot more sophisticated, you know, as we get into it that can help protect the hair follicle function.
So I guess going from outside to inside, remember, we talked about lifestyle, nutrition, and those genetic risk factors. And then we look at the scalp health, and then those preventative therapies, moving on into regenerative treatments, hair transplantation, and things like that. Awesome. So
Dr. Joel Rosen:
it sounds like at the same time, there’s a certain expectation of the patient as well. Right in terms of, they have to be in the, in the front seat with you, right in terms of you want to take over the steering wheel and help them achieve their destination an in a comfortable ride.
But at the same time, they have to be able to take over the steering wheel when you get out of the vehicle. So maybe talk a little bit about that are there ever times and Alan where it’s not a good fit for you because you just don’t have a magic wand and you can’t just wave it and they’re just gonna get better? And there’s gonna be a beanstalk at the end of the rainbow with a pot of gold. I mean, explain. Explain that a little bit.
Dr. Alan Bauman:
So I would say our relationship with patients is more of a navigator. So I’m the guy who’s plotting the map, you know, okay, you set the goal I want to get from here to there. Well, first of all, let’s see if it’s possible. Are there any barriers in between here and there that we can’t surmount with the therapies or treatments that we have on hand, then I’ll plan the route.
And so you know, just like you were starting a long journey or a road trip, you know, maybe you don’t know all the turns that we’re going to make, maybe we don’t know exactly where we’re going to stop to go get gas. But I’m going to give you the the guidelines, and we’re going to check in, in 90 days, and we’re going to see how your compliance, your regimen, your adherence to the program? Are you having difficulties are the topical medications creating some irritation? Are they you know, funking up your hairstyle or something?
And so sometimes it’s a skin reaction, sometimes it’s just a user error, you know, and we need to kind of refine how we apply that treatment or modify it. And if something is, you know, you’re applying the treatment 100% correctly, you’re doing the right amount, and frequency and all that, and we’re still not getting the results that we would expect, we got to dig deeper. And then we got to change gears or bolt on another kind of therapy, to get you to your goal. Maybe we need to look deeper.
And so I know you’re an expert in DNA. So we might do genetic testing to give us a more personalized precision approach. So what that does is it gives us insight into different metabolic pathways that might be influencing therapies or treatments. So it’s very common for patients to come in, they say, You know what, I used Rogaine years ago, and it didn’t work? Well, okay. It’s certainly possible. Maybe it was how you applied it. Maybe it was the version that you used? Maybe it was how long you tried to use it? Or was not enough.
Maybe you weren’t even watching the areas that were improving like the back of your scalp? Do you have a mirror that enables you to look at that area? How would you even know, maybe you are sulfotransferase deficient or deficient, and the activity of the enzyme that creates minoxidil sulfate in the skin from the minoxidil that comes out of the bottle?
And so today, we know, that if your soulful trends, if you have a low propensity or low activity of sulfotransferase, you’re not likely to get a strong response from minoxidil out of the bottle. But the good news is that there are a lot of ways that we can boost that response. So you know, sometimes an additive like knowing or something like that a prescription version of minoxidil plus trip, no one would be penetrating better, debating better, and maybe give you a better result.
And that over-the-counter version. So immediately, we can identify and kind of get a shortcut. And so we don’t have to go around that barrier. We don’t have to go over that barrier, we go around that barrier of therapy or treatment, if we did a genetic test, you know, right off the bat, for example, so many of our patients, they know that and they will do genetic testing, like even before they come into the office, just to get a sense of what treatments they may or may not be responding to as well as a typical patient. So that’s
Dr. Joel Rosen:
yeah, that’s no, that’s great. I wouldn’t even say, you’re selling yourself short on the Navigation component because it’s almost like the AI Navigation component where you punch in the data, and it gives you all of the unique, customized suggestions. And with that being said, what if they’re, they’re not local? Or do they have to come see you? And what can they do on their own? Given what you’ve just talked about?
Dr. Alan Bauman:
Yeah, that’s a great question. So the vast majority of my patients will connect with us virtually first. And so whether that’s a click on the website, or ask a question at Bellman medical.com, or even a virtual consultation through Zoom, we can start there, male or female patients can begin their hair restoration journey, virtually they don’t have to physically come into the office. Now, of course, when you’re in the office, we can do some more detailed measurements. We can’t do some of that stuff virtually.
But I could certainly send you a microscope if you needed if we needed that diagnose some scalp health issues. We do that very commonly. Very often we can prescribe medication In his or medical devices like low-level laser light photobiomodulation devices, we can make those suggestions in nutrition and haircare, and we can connect you with someone who we’ve trained locally in your neighborhood who can do some measurements for us. If you’re lucky, there is someone in the area who has gone through my hair coach training.
And so we can start with those, you know, photos, and video and kind of get into what the situation or the plan might be. Many of our patients do eventually come to us for treatments, maybe a regenerative treatment like PRP, or the newer therapies like PDO growth or exosome therapy, we have a new in-office treatment called Ted, that requires a few more interventions that requires four treatments over four months, we have one treatment a month for four months. But look, many of our hair transplant patients come from all over the world, we’re listed as one of the top 20 clinics in the world. So many of our patients are traveling 1000s of miles, and many different time zones to get to us. And we call that the executive hair restoration experience.
You know, it used to be the hair restoration vacation, got finely tuned into a more luxurious stay and a little bit more of the biohacking stuff to get you healed on the back end and the front end. But you know it’s been, it’s, that’s a great treatment option for patients who are coming in from out of town who need hair transplantation, they can start with that Virtual Console, get an idea of a treatment plan, both short term and long term, get an understanding of what they might need in terms of transplant, and then execute it at their leisure when they’re ready.
Dr. Joel Rosen:
Awesome, awesome stuff. So why don’t we get into some of the clinical pearls? And maybe we can talk about some of the technology you’re using and the nutrients that you’re using and the appropriate dietary approaches and lifestyle stuff, sort of talk about those things that you’re starting to see kind of rise to the top.
Dr. Alan Bauman:
Yeah, so like, I’m very, very keen, as you said before, on these lifestyle factors that could just regulate the hair follicle. And probably today, what’s on everybody’s mind is stress. And so, you know, when you’re running away from a tiger, you need that stress hormone to give you that extra boost and get the heck away. But today, perceived stress is the main killer, that persistent stress of either their job or family situation traffic or work, things like that, economically, physiologically, all these things could affect your hair follicles.
And we know that cortisol is a killer. I mean, he wants, the quickest thing to shut down a hair follicle in a petri dish is cortisol. So you know if we can improve someone’s stress level, either through stress management skills, and I don’t care how you do it, whether you do yoga or deep breathing, or write poetry or go to the shooting range, whatever, whatever works for you, is fine by me. But sometimes we add things like ashwagandha, which is an herb that has been very, very popular over the time of the pandemic to help mitigate stress.
And we call that the Zen master. And that’s like, you know, super easy, you know, just a personal story. My wife has been a much better traveler on airplanes since she started taking the ashwagandha. So our patients as well have noticed that it improves the stress level. And of course, there’s really good evidence now in the clinical literature, reducing cortisol levels, and essentially, as an adaptogen, making your body more resilient to the effects of stress. So you know, that’s one of the simple things that we often do. But we want to look at their nutritional intake.
I mean, today, patients come in, they might be on a strict diet, now maybe strict timing, they may be doing fasting, they might be doing a vegan diet. And so we want to look at biomarkers that tell us whether they’re nutrient-depleted or deficient. And there are a lot of ways to look at that many people who are on what I would consider kind of a discipline or religious diet are missing key components. And, you know, I’ve treated many vegans and vegetarians who were just simply protein deficient, like, you know, let’s get some protein in there. Okay.
And because, as I mentioned previously, your hair follicles are highly metabolic, it’s the highest mitotic rate of any cell population in your entire body more than bone marrow more than your GI tract. And so, if you’re nutritionally deficient in some way, especially protein, you’re not gonna build good hair or you’re not gonna build good quality hair, it’s gonna be prone to breakage, it’s going to become dull. And we don’t certainly don’t want that because it’s certainly hair loses its aesthetic value when it’s breaking or dull in texture.
I mean, I love to treat with protein supplementation, vitamins, and minerals. We talk a lot about the hero which is called which is biotin in the practice, as well as things like probiotics which are specifically geared to reduce overall body inflammation and improve nutrient absorption, and so we call those the good guys. You know, and then appropriate scalp health, you know, scalp care, so I have developed my haircare products we call the boost, shampoo, and conditioner and sued shampoo and conditioner and those have very specific ingredients to do each of the different things as you can tell by the name so boost hair growth or sued the scalp or both.
And then what else can we do? Non-invasively non-chemically? Well, photo bio-modulation red light therapy has been a part of the practice for 20-something years. In the beginning, we didn’t know how red light affected mitochondria cell metabolism or circulation. But today, we know improvements in blood flow and ATP production. I mean, these studies have been done and signed and sealed and the mechanism has been completely worked out by one of my heroes of photobiomodulation.
Dr. Michael Hamblin, you know, he’s the photobiomodulation God, over there. And it’s all detailed out exactly how the photo acceptor molecules in the mitochondria work and create the ATP, which is the energy currency, that makes the hair follicles produce thicker, better, stronger, healthier hair over time. So I mean, who wouldn’t use a nonchemical noninvasive side effect-free treatment like the turbo Laser Cap, I mean, that’s our primary laser device. And with a lifetime warranty, it’s your least costly treatment over time. So it’s a very nice at-home device.
Dr. Joel Rosen:
Hi, if you’re looking to get your photomodulation device at home, this laser turbo cap is a fantastic opportunity for you to stimulate that follicle hair growth. And Dr. Baumann has been so kind in that if you click on the link, and purchase the turbo Laser Cap as a result of this particular promotion in this podcast, then he’s going to offer you a $500 value for a completely no-obligation complimentary private one on one hair restoration consultation.
If you purchase that Baumann turbo Laser Cap, check out the link in the description below. And take advantage of the fact that you can have a one-on-one consultation with this amazing doctor. That is typically a $500 value. Now back to the podcast. That’s awesome. And as far as maybe getting into the exosomes, because I know that’s a hot new word in the world of hair restoration. So tell us exactly what that is and what it entails.
Dr. Alan Bauman:
Yeah, I mean, stem cell therapy has been a part of my practice and regenerative medicine has been a part of my practice for many years, 15 years and we were very, very keen. I was not afraid of going after harvesting stem cells from an autologous Lee from lipo aspirin, I’m a surgeon by training. So that was not a big deal for me for many, many years. And of course, the FDA came in with a guidance document around 2017 guiding physicians and what they felt was safe and not, and so forth. And so adhering to those documents. What you see now are off-the-shelf stem cell therapy products. So, exosomes are the secret tome, which is the stuff that comes out of the stem cells, the instructions, if you will.
And so in laboratories that are FDA-approved and cleared and guided, these bioreactors are filled with stem cells. And they’re put under specific environments that create these exosomes, which are very tiny little bubbles of inflammation, basically, micro RNA, cytokines, growth factors, and so forth chemical messages by the 1000s and millions and trillions. These exosomes are then collected and purified. They’re quantified sterilized frozen and then sent to us for use topically on the scalp. And so exosome therapy is essentially like stem cell therapy in a bottle.
And we can apply that topically to the scalp. One of the best ways to apply exosomes today is through trans epidermal delivery, which is an ultrasonic device that breaks the stratum corneum layer temporarily disrupts it, and enables us to push molecules and other things through the skin without a needle and any pain whatsoever. So that’s a very, very nice treatment option. So combining stem cell therapy, and exosome therapy, holds a lot of promise for hair growth.
And this trans-epidermal delivery system, which is usually used for growth factors and peptides, combining that stuff is been spectacular in the practice for patients who want that stem cell therapy, but don’t want to do something more invasive, like, you know, a little minor liposuction or something like that, or an injustice.
Dr. Joel Rosen:
Is it? Is it has it gotten to the point, Alan, I mean, notwithstanding there is a certain amount of hair loss that requires transplantation? But has it gotten to the point before, that all of the tools that you do can be facilitated remotely? Or has it gotten to the point where you do the same workup through Zoom and can make the recommendations with the technologies that are out there to make huge vast improvements in the follicle health and it’s noticeable?
Dr. Alan Bauman:
Yeah, I mean, I think kind of what you’re asking is can someone distant from me have success with a hair restoration program or treatment? Well, obviously if a follicle is dead and gone. I mean that’s kind of the end of the story, right? You’re going to need some degree of transplantation. And sometimes you could lose a lot of coverage and not, you know, be completely bald, right? So you could have a thinning crown or a woman with a little bit of a recession or thinning in the frontal zone, and the follicles are still there.
And so that’s where the photos are super helpful. And medical therapies can take you pretty far, and at least prevent future loss. If the density is truly depleted, and that’s, you know, it’s a judgment call. If it’s virtual, in the office, it’s more mathematical actually, then you’re going to need some degree of transplant surgery. But regardless of whether you need a transplant or not, you got to get started on some medical treatment, you know, you got to get started on something. I don’t care if it’s a vitamin or nutritional or doing a laser light, that’s going to be helpful for sure. Let’s get your regimen in gear. Then we can figure out do we need to do platelet-rich plasma PRP treatment. Do we need to do a TED treatment with exosome therapy?
Do we need something more aggressive or more invasive, like a minimally invasive hair transplant? So I mean, hair transplantation today is very different than years and years ago, with a lot less invasive, recovery time is super fast and comfortable. There are no real strong activity restrictions, once you get out a couple of days. We care for that area very, very well during that healing phase to get you completely through that healing phase of the process. And the hair growth is extremely robust.
And I think it’s because our growth, our growth rates are so good because of the techniques and technology that we use, but also that we’re optimizing the scalp, we’re optimizing you metabolically for the process and the procedure. And that’s a big piece of the puzzle that most surgeons miss. Well, not only
Dr. Joel Rosen:
optimizing but customizing as well, right? I mean, if someone doesn’t do well, or they have some of these genetic susceptibilities, to not have particular medications work effectively for them, then you’re not just giving them the everyone gets this or everyone gets bad approach.
As far as I’d like to talk a little bit about the longevity component that you’ve added to your practice. Is this for ongoing patients who have already done the restoration? Or do you have some people that are doing that now just as its own standalone, like, tell me how that fits into what you’re doing?
Dr. Alan Bauman:
Yeah. So I mean we’re super excited about officially having launched bounded performance. And as I said, we’ve been doing things in the practice addressing patient’s needs, whether it was metabolic needs, and things like that, diagnosing underlying conditions and identifying them, trying to send them out really with guidance, and not always getting such great results, when they would come back from their primary care what I consider like, you know, 2.0, medicine, we need to take a more 3.0, holistic and functional approach.
And that’s why I added the balanced performance program. So the word is spreading, it’s not just the patients inside the practice now who are benefiting from this performance program. But now they’re telling their friends and family and other people about how great it is and the results. And so people are inquiring into Bellman’s performance, really just through word of mouth.
And learning about what we do and how we do it, we have a very robust intake practice a very robust intake process, it takes about six or 12 weeks actually to get all the information, and everything kind of uploaded into the system. And then everything is custom-tailored, you know, so whether you’re just interested in, you know, some just basic wellness and metabolic health, or you want to get more optimized, it may include you know, hormone optimization for those folks who are in that appropriate category, where you want to dive down into longevity, and like, you know, look out for diseases of aging and cancer and heart disease and metabolic disorders and so forth, and brain dysfunction.
Over time, you know, we take a very, very well-rounded approach to that, and are really on the lookout for that. So we have a lot of interesting things, you know, liquid biopsies for cancer. CA is for the coronary artery. And obviously, we’re doing you know, body composition and things like that in the practice as well. So, it’s pretty interesting, anything we don’t do in the practice we’re referring out and connecting with the local diagnostic centers that can do that. But yeah, it’s been a exciting part of the practice. I, you know, I live in the breed that myself, personally, you know, with my workout regimen and my supplement regimen.
And the other things that we mentioned, to optimize, you know, my ability, cognitively, physically, you know, I want to be able to see, when I’m 100 years old, I want to be able to, you know, lift my grandchildren, great-grandchildren over my head, you know, when I’m that age without difficulty, I want to live those extra long lives, but you know, long years, but I want to live them healthily. And so I know I’ve got to prepare for that now.
And that’s kind of where, where my journey has taken me in and I’m trying to instill that into the balance performance program as well and that’s where the, you know, the Wellness in the optimization and the longevity pieces kind of all meet together.
Dr. Joel Rosen:
Yeah, it’s really interesting to see how that will flourish and what kind of direction that will take your practice. When people come to see you, it’s it is a very emotional connection that they have with their hair, which would probably be very correlated with having a high quality of life, enjoying the finer things, being able to be confident being able to make lifelong memories.
And if you don’t have that quality, it can be very debilitating. And it would be related to the same things that would want to avoid the fourth Horsemen in terms of cancer, cardiovascular, metabolic, cognitive stuff, neurodegenerative? Yeah, no, general degenerative? Yeah, that’s awesome. Do you have any? Are you prepared for where it might take you?
Dr. Alan Bauman:
Well, I’m not so sure. But like this journey, you know, which started 25 years ago, you know, we’ll continue to chart and map it as we go, you know, I don’t, I don’t have a specific goal for Belmont performance at the moment, I just want to be able to take it take care of every patient, specifically, as well as we possibly can, and utilize all these amazing new technologies that have come to the forefront, you know, from genetic testing to the technologies of examining the brain health and things like that.
And, you know, one of the things that kind of led me to this is the work that we’ve done with a great team, which is a 501 C three nonprofit, when if we have a little bit of time, certainly we’d love to mention about how we take care of our American heroes, our military veterans through that, that that process and that facility here in Boca Raton, I’m the medical director for that. And we bring in a lot of nonmedical therapies and treatments to try to help prevent these veterans from suffering from PTSD-related suicide.
Many of them come back with wounds of war that are visible and some that are invisible. And many of them have difficulty kind of reintegrating back into society, whether it be with their family or their job, and things like that. And it’s a very, very different atmosphere than what they had when they were over, you know, serving this country and protecting our freedoms. And I think we owe it to them to be able to protect them in that way, and to help them reintegrate and to optimize their health.
And so we’ve had an interesting level of support from the biohacking community and health and wellness community in terms of devices and, technologies, which has just been an outpouring of, amazing, heartwarming, technology and effort to help these veterans, everything has been donated. And we have never lost a veteran, we run about 30 veterans through the program every 90 days. So you know, I don’t know, six or six or 800 veterans and we’ve never lost one. And it’s a pretty interesting process that we use, from nutrition and fitness to these photobiomodulation and photobiomodulation helmets for PTSD.
We have the lobby for EEG, we have everything from happiness, for relaxation to a pulsed electromagnetic field for recovery and inflammation to the VMAs vibra acoustical and mechanical induction therapies. So really just some interesting confluence, far infrared sauna, we’re getting a cryo, you know, a bunch of different things that are happening over they’re a great team. And, you know, if there’s anybody out there, who is interested in that, and they’re in the field of health and wellness, and we’d like to be involved with a great team, I certainly invite them to go check out great team.org or message me directly, and we can connect them there.
But I’m taking a lot of that technology and putting it into balance and performance having tested it and tried it on those military vets. And knowing what the results have been over the past couple of years is going to accelerate our program of Dalman performance. It’s military-grade, which is kind of cool. Right? It
Dr. Joel Rosen:
is. You know, it’s amazing, because you mentioned medicine 3.0. I think that your field and specialty are unique in the way that you work up a patient and look at all the different factors and what the protocol is going to be or the strategy. But in reality, all of the same methodologies should be applied to healthcare in general. I guess the question would be how quick or slow Do you see that transition into 3.0? in all fields?
Dr. Alan Bauman:
Yeah, I don’t know. I think it’s going to be patient demand that’s going to drive that as we see that there’s been a lot of investment in dollars to get outside of traditional care. So whether it’s, you know, the veterans who are dealing with the VA, which is kind of the lowest common denominator with Big Pharma, the government, everything else going along there.
Unfortunately, you know, that’s what we’re doing a great team when you can see the proliferation of concierge programs, the X Prize for longevity, I mean, there’s a lot of movement in this part of the industry. And so and it’s something I’ve seen for many, many years, as I mentioned earlier, in our conversation, I’ve been a member of the American Academy, American Academy of Anti-aging since 1998. So I’ve seen this, you know, what people thought was kind of a hokey, you know, field, if you will.
And I saw it as the primordial goo of medicine 3.0, we didn’t know to call it that, at the time, we didn’t even have a clinical trial or published paper that showed that you could extend lifespan for at least the first 10 to 15 years that I was in that field, or attending those conferences. And it’s only been very recently that we’ve shown that there are interventions that can extend lifespan, in you know, in animals, and insects and so forth. And hopefully now going to be some proven results in humans as well. So we’ll see where it takes us. I think, as anything, everything else, kind of a consumer capitalist.
So we’ll see that the consumer will, will demand this kind of care, and if they’re not getting it, where they’re at, there will be a push to change or to get outside of that system. You know, I don’t know how it’s going to work. But you know, I think there’s no question that the explosion of interest in the medical field from you know, whether you see these Anti Aging and Longevity medical conferences, what used to be like I say, hokey, is now mainstream. So it’s no joke. This stuff is here, it’s now it’s just not equally distributed. But, you know, we’re trying to bring it to Boca Raton, that’s where I’m at.
Dr. Joel Rosen:
Now, it’s great, it is spreading like wildfire. And I think with AI and just how fast and, and I guess our knowledge base grows, it’s get out of the way or work with it, you know, to be able to harmonize and I think there are sacred cows that will be knocked down. But consumer demands will dictate where things go. And I think when third-party reimbursement understands how they can harness this for, a win-win situation, it should remain to be seen how quickly or slow that happens.
But people like you leading the way is, is encouraging. Allen, as far as one of the questions we ask our guests is given, you know so much and you’ve made changes, you sort of practice what you preach, and you have the integrity to want the people that you help do the same thing that you recommend that you’re doing yourself. So I guess with that being said, what would you have told the younger version of yourself what you didn’t know, then that you know, now that might have accelerated your curve or implemented a strategy that would have been useful back then what do you think that would have been? Yeah.
Dr. Alan Bauman:
So I mean, as I said, you know, my health journey was not like a 180 Turnaround. And, you know, sometimes when you’re younger, you feel like, well, you know, you don’t need all of this extra effort or energy, things are going great, and you feel great, and you’ve got all this extra energy and metabolism and everything else is going along, well then, you know, middle-aged gets, you know, it’s not just hair loss, but you know, like I said, a waistline expanding and, and, you know, in body aches and pains you know, from doing surgery every single day, just as an example, I had, you know, muscle aches and pains in my shoulders and my back and my forearms actually, from actually physically doing the work. And I guess when I first had that, the only thing I knew to take care of it was with massage therapy. And massage therapy was kind of a bandaid on the situation.
So what I would tell my younger self from like, let’s say 20 years ago, is start building more muscle because as soon as I realized, and it was years later, until I started, you know, literally doing, you know, a more resistance training type of workout more than just bodyweight did all those aches and pains go away. And so, you know, I felt like I was kind of taking care of it, okay.
But I improved in terms of my physical ability to do the work that I love to do, which is the surgery to such a dramatic degree, once I started to build a little bit of muscle, and I’m not, I’m not a bodybuilder, I’m not, you know, I’m not looking to become the Hulk or, you know, whatever. But, you know, resistance training is important for that. So I would encourage, if you’re a surgeon, you know, you would never think, Oh, I gotta lift weights to do surgery, but I did improve my surgery, like a lot. And, you know, building a little bit of muscle mass, improving my stamina, with the surgical procedures that I did.
And so that’s like, the number one thing I probably would tell my younger self, like, you know, just start doing some resistance training earlier. And you probably could have avoided all that time. You know, just trying to put a bandaid on it with massage therapy. And the other thing I would tell my younger self is that meditation is not hard. You know, you just have to find the right way to access that state of mind.
And so today we have all kinds of electronics and wearables and biofeedback and you know, experts that you can connect With over the internet to help you breathwork to set the mind in motion, but getting into that state of relaxation and an activating your parasympathetic state to kind of cool down. The high intensity, you know, daily life activities, for me have been important.
And more important to me than like, even taking a long vacation is just being able to really rejuvenate and recover mentally and physically, with short bursts of time. And so those are the, I guess, those are the main things that I would tell my younger self, you know, that you can do it, you can do that.
I mean, I’m not like a meditator, but I, you know, I have those times where I can, I can, you know, turn things off and focus internally. And that’s helped me a lot in terms of mental clarity and, and precision in my thoughts. So, you know, those are the mind, mind, and body, those are the two ends of the spectrum, I guess. And that’s where I would, that’s what I would tell my younger self.
Dr. Joel Rosen:
Now, that’s great. And I think that can apply to everyone. And I went to a metabolic health summit in Santa Barbara last year, and I was impressed with I mean, they had read again there and they had a Lustig, they’re still there, big names. And they were presenting one of the presenters was, he is an MD CSC.
And CSCs is a Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist. In my past life, I used to have that and these are the people that are the strength and conditioning coaches for the Miami Dolphins. That’s what the CSCs are. So it’s a big, it’s a big certification. And they were presenting a study on cancer patients and how they improve their outcomes by having them work out.
But the thing was that it wasn’t just the sit on the leg extension and do leg extensions or leg curls, and just you know, the 1980 workouts, but it was they were having these women doing deadlifts and squats and you know, real movement. So I would also add that to what you’re saying, as well as it’s not just lifting weights, per se, but it’s the real compound movements that even if they’re doing for cancer patients, you could do for yourself because it’s that important.
The other thing I would say is when we do a genetic test interpretation, one of the genes there is such a gene, it’s the oxytocin receptor gene. If you put the RS ID number into the NIC to see if it’s been researched, it is considered the empath gene. So we don’t know if it’s upregulated or downregulated. But we know that people who have one or two copies of this are going to be more empathic.
So they say they have this antenna sticking out of their head, and all these frequencies of the world and COVID and their friends and all that information is coming in. And it’s causing sort of the kicking up of the ocean floor, and all the excitability and neurotransmitters. My recommendation to them is not so much the meditation, but it’s doing what they find purposeful what their mission is. And I think you do that every day with what you do. Because you’re you love what you do. It’s evident and the learning, I don’t think there’s one aspect that isn’t intriguing to you.
And I think if there’s a way to harness for the person who’s listening at that very thing, whether it’s hugging your dog going out into nature, spending time with loved one, but oxytocin is the hug drug connection drug, the purpose drugs, and it puts the brakes on the parasympathetic system or something called NADPH oxidase enzyme that just causes massive amounts of activation of mast cells and histamine. So there’s a real science to it. And I think you alluded to it not with just meditation, but with doing what it is that makes you who you are. Would you agree with that? Or would you
Dr. Alan Bauman:
100% No 100%. So you know, things that excite me going to conferences, learning new things, seeing new equipment, new procedures, learning about the latest technology, I’ll go to the World Stem Cell Summit, I’ll go to a forum am mg I’ve been to M casts with plastic surgeons in Paris, 16,000 Doctors attend that, you know, obviously international side of hair restoration surgery, but I try to get outside of my hair box, if you will, to try to get an idea of what’s going on out there.
And to cross-pollinate, and that’s really how I built these add-ons to the practice. It wasn’t a hair surgeon that taught me how to do PRP. Those guys were the last to implement PRP, it was an orthopedic surgeon, you know, and Orthobiologics have been around a long time. So learning those things has been exciting for me, adding them into the practice and building something. You know, building my practice in the business has always been fun.
The surgical aspect is a state of flow for me. So I do a lot of thinking around the time that I’m creating. In the artistic representation of the hair, you know, literally like hair by hair implantation, the stroke of my hand determines the angle, the orientation of position. And doing that it’s the artistic, artistic work with the microsurgery for me is where I enter into a state of flow.
And it’s usually not a time where I’m having an in-depth conversation with the patient, although sometimes, you know, we can’t win and do. But it’s, you know, it’s very, very rewarding to do all of those different things.
I just feel very blessed that, you know, my dad told me, it was an ancient Chinese proverb, I guess, if you are maybe a Mark Twain, if you find something you like to do, you never have to work a day. You know, I don’t know if that was a Greek philosopher Mark Twain, or one of those. But, you know, he told me that at a very young age, he thought, and I thought it was him his quote, but that’s, you know, that’s I’ve gotten to follow that.
Even from the very beginning, when I learned about hair transplant surgery, I took a leap of faith that this was something that I loved and that I was going to make work, even though there wasn’t a path that I could follow. There wasn’t a playbook if you will. And so just kind of set the goal and then move forward and obstacles kind of fell by the wayside as I moved forward with it.
Dr. Joel Rosen:
No, it’s a great, it’s a great lesson for those who are listening to this who are dealing with hair loss, and who have a lot of stress in their life. They’re looking for the magic formula, but they haven’t connected to what their purpose and passion are and how much that plays a role in calming down the inflammatory response and indirectly impacting the follicle health.
So you can see why Baumann Medical stands alone and what it does, as far as how we learn about where you are, what we what you do if they want to get in contact with you. What’s the best approach to do that?
Dr. Alan Bauman:
Yeah, well, the best place to start is Bauman, medical.com. Bau ma N. medical.com, is a website that I built, you know, starting back in the 1990s. And I’ve written 1000s, and 1000s, of pages of information there. So it’s a great place to learn about what we do, what we used to do, what we’re going to do, and what we’re currently doing. And it’s also a great place to get your questions answered. I mean, you can go to bound medical.com/ask and ask me anything, and we’ll get an answer to you.
And you can also schedule a consultation and start your hair restoration journey from there. Obviously, I’m also on most social media platforms, all of them, you can always follow me and connect with me there if you would like.
And I look forward, if you’re, you know, to helping you if you’re out there, and you’ve got a hair loss situation, and you felt hopeless, or you thought that there weren’t effective treatment options out there. Or, you know, a friend said, Oh, go to Turkey and get it fixed. You know, I would just caution you that medical tourism has a lot of pitfalls. And so if you would like to stay safe, and get a nice, aesthetically pleasing result, or at least just an effective and holistic treatment plan. You know, let’s have a discussion about it and start that journey at Bauman medical.com. And I look forward to helping you.
Dr. Joel Rosen:
Awesome. Well, I mean, I think if they listen to this, they see all that goes into the workup, and from the moment they call and the bonding and the concern and the caring to figuring out what the best solution is isn’t just a matter of a plug and play or just do this and that.
And that’s it. That’s all, so thank you so much for your time. I’m super excited to have interviewed you. I’ve been wanting to do this for a while. I appreciate all that you do, Alan, and I wish you nothing but future success with everything that you do, especially with your new longevity program, the great team, and everything else in between.
Dr. Alan Bauman:
Thanks, Joe. I appreciate it’s been great to be with you. And thank you so much for having me.
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